I'm trying to find info about direct injection engines and fuel additives to use in them, and I think this forum is the best place to ask. Out of the blue I just started using Lucas UCL fuel treatment in my work truck and I have seen improved performance and I like the idea of what it does. I'd like to start using something for my 2008 GTI and it has the FSI 2.0t engine. Apparently the back of the valves go untouched by any fuel additives you put in the gas tank on these vehicles. Is this true? Does anyone have personal experience with this engine or other DI engines and are there any recommendations about fuel additives that can help prolong the engine lifespan and keep the valves cleaner?
DI Engine Fuel Additive
- Thread starter dejavu
- Start date
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Redline SL-1 potent cleaner and UCL all in 1.
Agree....SL-1 is a great product and cleans and lubricates your fuel system beautifully.
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
_____________________________________________
2003 Ford Focus SE 2.3L / 82 K
Valvoline MaxLife Syn 5w30 / OCI 7,500 +/-
Purolator PureOne 10241
Redline SL-1
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
_____________________________________________
2003 Ford Focus SE 2.3L / 82 K
Valvoline MaxLife Syn 5w30 / OCI 7,500 +/-
Purolator PureOne 10241
Redline SL-1
I was thinking that people would recommend the redline and I was going to get some at pep boys. I'll be going on a trip to GA soon and I'll be running it in my tank.
Originally Posted By: dejavu
Apparently the back of the valves go untouched by any fuel additives you put in the gas tank on these vehicles. Is this true?
You betcha. Check this link as long as you're not too squimish about what the inside of your engine may look like.
Gooky Valves
For more detailed information specific to your engine you should check the Technical forums for your engine on VWVortex.
But as you've said, fuel does not regularly hit the back of the valves so fuel additives will have little to no effect on keeping them clean. There are various treatments for this with varying costs and effectiveness. Cheap + Easy + Effective = Ain't gonna happen.
Apparently the back of the valves go untouched by any fuel additives you put in the gas tank on these vehicles. Is this true?
You betcha. Check this link as long as you're not too squimish about what the inside of your engine may look like.
Gooky Valves
For more detailed information specific to your engine you should check the Technical forums for your engine on VWVortex.
But as you've said, fuel does not regularly hit the back of the valves so fuel additives will have little to no effect on keeping them clean. There are various treatments for this with varying costs and effectiveness. Cheap + Easy + Effective = Ain't gonna happen.
Redline does advertise that their's will survive the conbustion chamber and clean on its way out, FWIW.
i've been checking vwvortex and another GTI forum. People seem to be using seafoam to clean their valves but that's not something I'd be able to do on my own. I don't have any mods on my car, so everything is running stock which may be keeping things a bit cleaner than the majority of the GTI forum users who post pics of their horrid dirty valves. I probably will turn in this car at the end of the lease and try to pick a car that is less expensive to maintain and with a longer projected lifespan. It seems like a lot of new cars about to come out are going to have direct injection and that some company needs to come up with a product to keep these engines cleaner if possible.
dejavu - You are right. There is no fuel flow past the intake valves.
Only incidental fuel from valve overlap fro the cylinder.
so a fuel cleaner won't do very much. It may help a bit with deposits, from a left handed way.
If you like the Lucas, try TCW3 2 stroke oil or MMO.
The 2 stroke oil is a much better lube than the Lucas, and the MMO has cleaners and lube. I could never tell when Lucas was in a car, but have always liked 2 stroke oil or MMO.
Only incidental fuel from valve overlap fro the cylinder.
so a fuel cleaner won't do very much. It may help a bit with deposits, from a left handed way.
If you like the Lucas, try TCW3 2 stroke oil or MMO.
The 2 stroke oil is a much better lube than the Lucas, and the MMO has cleaners and lube. I could never tell when Lucas was in a car, but have always liked 2 stroke oil or MMO.
Fuel additives are not the way to treat valve deposit issues. They can help some with fuel injector clogging (which is often a result of pcv gunk recirculation also). Here are some better options:
Originally Posted By: saaber1
If you stop the problem by eliminating pcv gas return to the intake tract, most of the problem is solved (probably some deposition from valve guides still though).
Here is a video of the BG induction service that Crew219 found on VW vortex http://www.vimeo.com/3989681
Also, here are the techniques I know of to deal with valve deposits (from the audi/Mikeinaustin thread):
Some very easy/low cost preventative options that can help but will not solve the DI valve deposit problems:
1) Use a low volatility and good cleaning oil (cost: additional $5-$10 per oil change)
2) Seafoam, lubro moly valve cleaner, water, etc. through the intake at every oil change (cost: $3.50-$10)
3) Regular italian tuneups (cost: gas)
4) Catch can (all kinds of flavors out there) (cost: $30-$300)
5) Fuel injector cleaner in the gas to deal with fuel injector deposits (will not help with intake valve or intake deposits) (cost:$5-$10)
More difficult/expensive "helping but not solving options"
6) BG induction service or similar (cost: $135-$250?)
7) water/meth injection (cost: ???)
8) remove intake and clean valves every 50k or so (cost: ????)
Some one-time-fix-the-problem options:
1) bypass pcv and route to exhaust (search for saaber2 thread "bypassing pcv") (cost $125-$175)
2) Run a catch can that vents to atmosphere ((may increase build up acids in oil due to lack of vacuum in evacuating crankcase gasses (but that is unknown)?)? may have smell or freezing issues?) (cost: $300?)
3) Run a "down tube" or "road tube" that vents to atmosphere ((may increase build up acids in oil due to lack of vacuum in evacuating crankcase gasses (but that is unknown)?) (cost: $25 -$50)
Originally Posted By: saaber1
If you stop the problem by eliminating pcv gas return to the intake tract, most of the problem is solved (probably some deposition from valve guides still though).
Here is a video of the BG induction service that Crew219 found on VW vortex http://www.vimeo.com/3989681
Also, here are the techniques I know of to deal with valve deposits (from the audi/Mikeinaustin thread):
Some very easy/low cost preventative options that can help but will not solve the DI valve deposit problems:
1) Use a low volatility and good cleaning oil (cost: additional $5-$10 per oil change)
2) Seafoam, lubro moly valve cleaner, water, etc. through the intake at every oil change (cost: $3.50-$10)
3) Regular italian tuneups (cost: gas)
4) Catch can (all kinds of flavors out there) (cost: $30-$300)
5) Fuel injector cleaner in the gas to deal with fuel injector deposits (will not help with intake valve or intake deposits) (cost:$5-$10)
More difficult/expensive "helping but not solving options"
6) BG induction service or similar (cost: $135-$250?)
7) water/meth injection (cost: ???)
8) remove intake and clean valves every 50k or so (cost: ????)
Some one-time-fix-the-problem options:
1) bypass pcv and route to exhaust (search for saaber2 thread "bypassing pcv") (cost $125-$175)
2) Run a catch can that vents to atmosphere ((may increase build up acids in oil due to lack of vacuum in evacuating crankcase gasses (but that is unknown)?)? may have smell or freezing issues?) (cost: $300?)
3) Run a "down tube" or "road tube" that vents to atmosphere ((may increase build up acids in oil due to lack of vacuum in evacuating crankcase gasses (but that is unknown)?) (cost: $25 -$50)
FWIW, I will probably be taking my manifold off and cleaning by hand. The reasons are that I'm cheap, I don't trust "professionals" to work on my car, and also.. I'm cheap but I don't do want to do something like this "half-assed". Oh... did I mention that I'm cheap?
I far as me, I've got the Cadillac CTS with the 3.6DI engine. At every oil change I spray cleaner thru the intake to allow it to go past the valves and clean. I do this with the engine running. I'm not sure if my engine has any "issues" being DI, but from what I've read about other manufacturers' DI engines - I'm taking a pro-active stance. I just clean it real good, dump the oil and move on.
so about this running the cleaner through the intake. On my GTI, the intake is very weird. The air filter is built into the cover of the engine and the air is taken in via a duct directly under where the hood closes at the front of the engine bay. If I go ahead and try this method I would take off the engine cover since the filter would just block the cleaner, and just spray the stuff directly into what's left, the opening where the engine cover/filter was connected? I'm such a newb when it comes to engines but I really like this car and would like to start learning what it takes to keep it well maintained. Where would I buy a spray cleaner and what brand is good?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Redline SL-1 potent cleaner and UCL all in 1.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Agree....SL-1 is a great product and cleans and lubricates your fuel system beautifully.
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
It's SI-1, not SL-1.
Redline SL-1 potent cleaner and UCL all in 1.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Agree....SL-1 is a great product and cleans and lubricates your fuel system beautifully.
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
It's SI-1, not SL-1.
Originally Posted By: dejavu
so about this running the cleaner through the intake. On my GTI, the intake is very weird. The air filter is built into the cover of the engine and the air is taken in via a duct directly under where the hood closes at the front of the engine bay. If I go ahead and try this method I would take off the engine cover since the filter would just block the cleaner, and just spray the stuff directly into what's left, the opening where the engine cover/filter was connected? I'm such a newb when it comes to engines but I really like this car and would like to start learning what it takes to keep it well maintained. Where would I buy a spray cleaner and what brand is good?
Search for dsire thread and multiple seafoaming threads on the 2.0 FSI section of vw vortex. Back before I fixed the valve deposit problem by routing pcv gasses to the exhaust, I used the dsire method which involves sucking in lubromoly valve cleaner through a basketball needle. It's ridiculously easy to do. You don't even have to remove the engine cover.
so about this running the cleaner through the intake. On my GTI, the intake is very weird. The air filter is built into the cover of the engine and the air is taken in via a duct directly under where the hood closes at the front of the engine bay. If I go ahead and try this method I would take off the engine cover since the filter would just block the cleaner, and just spray the stuff directly into what's left, the opening where the engine cover/filter was connected? I'm such a newb when it comes to engines but I really like this car and would like to start learning what it takes to keep it well maintained. Where would I buy a spray cleaner and what brand is good?
Search for dsire thread and multiple seafoaming threads on the 2.0 FSI section of vw vortex. Back before I fixed the valve deposit problem by routing pcv gasses to the exhaust, I used the dsire method which involves sucking in lubromoly valve cleaner through a basketball needle. It's ridiculously easy to do. You don't even have to remove the engine cover.
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Back before I fixed the valve deposit problem by routing pcv gasses to the exhaust, I used the dsire method which involves sucking in lubromoly valve cleaner through a basketball needle.
Have you verified that you have indeed fixed the problem? There's been numerous reports of people that have just as bad of a problem even though they are using a catch can venting to air. Not sure about venting to exhaust.
Back before I fixed the valve deposit problem by routing pcv gasses to the exhaust, I used the dsire method which involves sucking in lubromoly valve cleaner through a basketball needle.
Have you verified that you have indeed fixed the problem? There's been numerous reports of people that have just as bad of a problem even though they are using a catch can venting to air. Not sure about venting to exhaust.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Redline SL-1 potent cleaner and UCL all in 1.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Agree....SL-1 is a great product and cleans and lubricates your fuel system beautifully.
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
It's SI-1, not SL-1.
__________________________________________________
The bottle says Sl-1... On the second letter (after S) could that be a lower-case L and not a upper-case I....???
We're getting a little picky....picky, picky, picky.
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Redline SL-1 potent cleaner and UCL all in 1.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Agree....SL-1 is a great product and cleans and lubricates your fuel system beautifully.
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
It's SI-1, not SL-1.
__________________________________________________
The bottle says Sl-1... On the second letter (after S) could that be a lower-case L and not a upper-case I....???
We're getting a little picky....picky, picky, picky.
Originally Posted By: MisterJJ
...There's been numerous reports of people that have just as bad of a problem even though they are using a catch can venting to air. Not sure about venting to exhaust.
I think you are confusing vent to atmosphere cans with recirculating cans. There are numerous reports of recirculating cans being ineffective.
There is only one VTA can report of it being ineffective that I know of and that is on a car with over 60k miles and it had a VTA can for only the last 7k miles or so (numbers are from memeory and not exact) so the problems came from the first 57k or whatever with no can.
...There's been numerous reports of people that have just as bad of a problem even though they are using a catch can venting to air. Not sure about venting to exhaust.
I think you are confusing vent to atmosphere cans with recirculating cans. There are numerous reports of recirculating cans being ineffective.
There is only one VTA can report of it being ineffective that I know of and that is on a car with over 60k miles and it had a VTA can for only the last 7k miles or so (numbers are from memeory and not exact) so the problems came from the first 57k or whatever with no can.
Originally Posted By: saaber1
There is only one VTA can report of it being ineffective that I know of and that is on a car with over 60k miles and it had a VTA can for only the last 7k miles or so (numbers are from memeory and not exact) so the problems came from the first 57k or whatever with no can.
Well... I've read so many different reports on this issue from so many different places that I'm not certain but I remember that someone had added a VTA can after cleaning their valves and when they checked things again several thousand miles later they found they were still getting a lot of build-up. It was taken as proof that the valves weeping oil was a big part of the problem. I think you definitely should check on your valves despite having the VTE. And I don't just say that because I want to know if it works. ;-)
There is only one VTA can report of it being ineffective that I know of and that is on a car with over 60k miles and it had a VTA can for only the last 7k miles or so (numbers are from memeory and not exact) so the problems came from the first 57k or whatever with no can.
Well... I've read so many different reports on this issue from so many different places that I'm not certain but I remember that someone had added a VTA can after cleaning their valves and when they checked things again several thousand miles later they found they were still getting a lot of build-up. It was taken as proof that the valves weeping oil was a big part of the problem. I think you definitely should check on your valves despite having the VTE. And I don't just say that because I want to know if it works. ;-)
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Redline SL-1 potent cleaner and UCL all in 1.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Agree....SL-1 is a great product and cleans and lubricates your fuel system beautifully.
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
It's SI-1, not SL-1.
__________________________________________________
The bottle says Sl-1... On the second letter (after S) could that be a lower-case L and not a upper-case I....???
We're getting a little picky....picky, picky, picky.
It's definitely an I. Searching for a product using an incorrect name just makes it more difficult to find. Both locally and online.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: DieselTech
Redline SL-1 potent cleaner and UCL all in 1.
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Agree....SL-1 is a great product and cleans and lubricates your fuel system beautifully.
I use 1.5 to 2 oz. every time I fill my 14 gal tank for continued maintainance.
It's SI-1, not SL-1.
__________________________________________________
The bottle says Sl-1... On the second letter (after S) could that be a lower-case L and not a upper-case I....???
We're getting a little picky....picky, picky, picky.
It's definitely an I. Searching for a product using an incorrect name just makes it more difficult to find. Both locally and online.
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