Devlac 1300 / Devlac 1 Mix

Status
Not open for further replies.
quote:

Originally posted by Roger3116:
OK OK You have just about convinced me to use Delvac 1. What filter would you recommend? I currently use a Fleetguard #LF667 but could use a syn. filter #LF3379 at a much greater cost.( 5x ). Perhaps I should change the conventional filter every 10,000km and run the oil to 30,000km? The last question I have concerns TBN. I assume this is how to judge the life left in the oil when I do a UOA, but my UOA does not show it. I am using Toromont S.O.S. in Toronto Ont. This is the only one I seem to have access to in Canada. Can I use the UOA without the TBN to extend the oil change. Thanks again for all your advice. Roger

Roger:

Now you have me confused.

After expressing reservations about extended oil drains, I suggested you run Esso XD-3 0W-40 ($4.25 a litre at your Esso Bulk Dealer) in the coldest winter conditions, which is Cat approved.

Or you can go to your Cat dealer and purchase their own special synthetic 0W-30, though I have no idea what it's priced at.

In summer, continue to use whatever 15W-40 you want. I suggested Esso XD-3 15W-40, priced around $2.25 a litre at your Esso Bulk dealer.

You really have to extend the drain intervals out to make Delvac 1 5W-40 "pay" for itself, and if you're reluctant to do that, I really can't see any reason to do so.

The Esso XD-3 0W-40 is supposed to now be a full PAO synthetic, which at $4.25 a litre is about one half what Mobil wants for the Delvac 1. Esso recommends their XD-3 0W-40 in ambient temps up to +10 C / 50 F in Cat motors.

Also remember that when Mobil reformulated Delvac 1 to CI-4 specs, it's now quite a bit thicker. I have my doubts if it is good to -40, whereas Esso XD-3 0W-40 is MRV BPT rated to -45 C / -49 F.

Since Mobil now refuses to comment on what their MRV BPT value is, I have to assume they have quite a bit to hide from us. Although my UOA is still good, I may no longer use Delvac 1 after the next oil change cycle.

Jerry
 
FWIW, the company I work for changes their oil every 30,000+ miles using Delvac 1300. The engines are mostly Detroit Series 60 430hp with a couple Cummins N14s also. They normally last about 800,000 miles before they need rebuilt. The trucks (Freightliners) are pretty much junk by then anyway. They tried keeping a few of them after rebuilding the engines but they found out that they are better off buying new than dealing with constant downtime with the old trucks being in the shop all the time. Needless to say that the drivers didn't want to drive that old junk either.
cheers.gif
 
When you have a true HD diesel with 2-3 main and 1 bypass oil filter, and 2-3 pails of oil in the sump, those numbers are perfectly in line.

A Cat 3116 only holds around 20 litres / 20 quarts, and bypass in optional. So the recommended OCI is around 15,000km / 9300mi.

So when you price Delvac 1 in Canada, an oil change will cost around $175 in oil alone. Roger has expressed reluctance to dramatically extend his OCI and I'm certainly not going to push the argument.

Let's compare the oil costs for Roger's 20 litre oil sump following the Cat recommended servicing interval with the following Esso XD-3 grades:

Esso XD-3 0W-40: $85
Esso XD-3 15W-40: $45

Even in Canada, not too many folks have heard of Esso XD-3. Esso might try advertising it better, that's for sure. It's a fine conventional oil, and the 0W-40 is now a full PAO oil. At $4.25 a litre, the 0W-40 is one HECK of a deal compared to Delvac 1 5W-40, and has much better cold temp properties.

I think Roger was most concerned about the extreme cold temps this winter, where a regular 15W-40 or 10W-30 are frozen solid. The Esso XD-3 0W-40 would work fine for just 1-2 OCI's and would be less than half the price of Delvac 1, again with better cold temp properties.

Jerry
 
Jerry---Your confused--what about me? I thought you and most everyone else was trying to convince me to run Delvac 1 and extended oil changes because of the extremely cold temps. we have been experiencing and I would get all the other benifits of a syn.oil--fuel milage, cleaner engine, less carbon build-up etc. You had me convinced to move into the modern age and do this - now you are saying they have changed Delvac 1 and the cold start is not as good. This was the main reason I was changing. My orginal question was about how to use a UOA without a TBN and what filter to use. I sure hope it warms up soon and I will forget this whole mess untill next year. Roger
 
Roger:

Sorry about the confusion. First of all, your original question had to do with cold temp performance, especially at -25C and colder, not with UOA and TBN's and such.

I apologise if my original statement about Delvac 1 offering superior cold temp performance confused you. My Delvac 1 spec sheet was over a year old, and at the time Delvac 1 did offer superior cold temp performance.

When another forum member challanged my assertion, I though he had used the wrong numbers, as the pour point didn't sound right. A quick check at the Mobil web site proved I was wrong about the "new" Delvac 1.

With the CI-4 reformulation, and based on what limited spec Mobil does publish, Delvac 1 no longer appears to offer good cold temp performance colder than around -30 C.

Also, unless you're willing to invest in bypass filters and a fairly tight regime of UOA, Delvac 1 does NOT pay. I have also sent you emails stating this, and I recommended a far cheaper alternative.

In such a case, Esso XD-3 meets or exceeds deposit control when kept to the factory recommended OCI. The Esso XD-3 was the first of the major HDEO's blended to control Top Grove Fill, which the Cat 3116 motor, along with other diesel motors, experienced.

I have used Esso XD-3 in the past and would have no hesitation to do so again. Their products are engineered and blended for true Canadian environments, and currently exceed all North American HD specs required by Cat, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Mack, and Navistar.

Since Esso is quite willing to share all their test data, which you can find at www.imperialoil.ca, the cold temp performance of Esso XD-3 0W-40 and 0W-30 is apparent.

When compared to the few test points from Mobil, here is how they compare:

CCS at -30C:
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 CI-4 rated: 6,100 cP
Esso XD-3 0W-30 CI-4 rated: 5,900 cP
Esso XD-3 0W-40 CI-4 rated: 5,900 cP

Pumping Viscosity at -35C:
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 CI-4 rated: 32,000 cP
Esso XD-3 0W-30 CI-4 rated: 11,200 cP
Esso XD-3 0W-40 CI-4 rated: 14,900 cP

Especially in the cold temp flow test, MRV, Esso XD-3 in either 0W-30 or 0W-40 offers FAR superior performance over Delvac 1. I emailed you a detailed test result and suggested you contact your Cat authorized engine shop for more advice.

You have stated reluctance to move beyond a 15,000km OPI, which would make Delvac 1 a VERY expensive oil to use. I'm not in the habit of twisting someone's arm to extend OCI's.

For an expensive diesel motor, extending the OCI out 4-6x recommended (The point where Delvac 1 makes sense) carries a lot of risk and should NOT be taken lightly. At the very least, the primary and bypass filters must be carefully considered, and UOA is a must.

Remember that unlike passenger car oils, HD diesel oils are not subject to CAFE, "Starburst" or other such nonsense. The engine maker can and does have an Approval List and you should always use an oil on that list.

With appropriate OCI's, Esso XD-3 will keep a motor clean and provide good service. Now for winter temp performance, I may have to switch my entire fleet back to Esso XD-3.

I've noticed at -42 unless I use the electric pan heaters, the Delvac 1 appears to be sluggish. With XD-3 0W-40, that would NOT happen, as the MRV values are less than HALF the "new" Delvac 1.

Shell also offers a good oil, but it's not "better" than Esso XD-3 and costs more. All the fleet owners and loggers around here who do NOT run synthetics run Esso XD-3 with good results, as long as they run the viscosity appropriate for the ambient conditions.

In the end, you've also discovered just how confusing picking an oil has become. It caught me by surprise as I assumed the "old" Delvac 1 and the "new" Delvac 1 rated the same in cold temp. They don't.

Jerry
 
Thanks Gerry---You are a little over my head with some of the tech. numbers. To make it simple- if I run XD-3, 0-40 in the winter and 15-40 in the summer, at what temp. does it make sense to switch. I like the Delvac 15-40 for the summer but I do not like to change brands. Do you think the XD-3 is as good as the Delvac 15-40? Thanks again Roger
 
Roger:

Yep, I would only run Esso XD-3 0W-40 during the winter months when coldest, so you will only have to fork over the $4.25 per litre for possibly just one oil change.

20 litres x $4.25 = $85 plus GST/PST

The rest of the year I'd run Esso XD-3 15W-40, which is $2.25 per litre.

20 litres x $2.25 = $45 plus GST / PST

I believe Cat has the following recommendation for ambient temps and grades to use:

Grade Recommended Ambient Range
15W-40: +15 to +122 F (-9.5 to +50 C)
0W-30 / 0W-40: -40 to +86 F (-40 to +30 C)

Since Cat appears to be much more conservative in the use of a 15W-40 in cold temps, and since they appear to allow the lighter oil to be run up to +30 C, you will have to base the cutoff on low temp.

So maybe you will have to use the 0W-40 for 2 oil change intervals. It all depends on how quickly you reach 15,000km.

I think the Esso XD-3 15W-40 is at least as good as the Delvac 1300, and more than likely cheaper to boot. Esso has a long history in Canada of developing lubricants just for the Canadian climate.

Especially at -35 C, you will notice the Esso XD-3 0W-40 has a pumping viscosity less than one HALF that of Delvac 1. The pumping viscosity if most critical at startup.

I hope this helps your decision.

Jerry
 
quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
For what its worth, Ive run the 50/50 delvac 1300 delvac 1 mix for the last 20k or so inmy 83 benz turbodiesel (617 engine). I had run delvac 1300 straight and delvac 1 straight.
I hve found that the 50/50 has the same wear numbers as either 100% mix, and provides the better mileage of running straight delvac 1 (27.5-31 mpg vs 26-28.5 mpg on dino delvac) without the high cost of the oil. I thought trhat I was safe from additive clash by using nly mobil diesel oils, but I think Ill just do stright delvac 1 as I dont want to induce additive clash.

JMH


How many miles when you switched to synthetic?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top