Detergent or non detergent in '74 beetle

[JAYCEE]

Sounds like an Auto-RX candidate to me!


I'd try several different oils. HD30 in summertime; 10w-40 in winter and so on. Find what works and stick with it.

 

[3putter]

Nice wheels ! The photo brings back fond memories of when I was in college. I had a '72 Beetle my father bought new for me after my '64 Ford Falcon Sled dropped dead (thankfully).

I ran 10w30 in the cold months (Nov-April) and straight 30w May-Oct. Always Quaker State detergent. Worked like a champ. Lived in Milwaukee, WI which I presume would have winters comparable to Western NY. Frequent OCI's are a given.

 

[Pablo]

I used to have a VW dunebuggy. That thing chewed oil worse than any engine I've owned before or since. It would foam and sludge any known petroleum oil brand, even at short intervals. Heck you should have seen what it did to Fed Mart oil! (white snot in less than 500 miles)

Do they still make a remote filter rig for air cooled VW's? The key here is more oil volume and cooler oil, no matter which oil you choose. Maybe you could string in another oil cooler and a big oil filter and get another 1-2 qts in the system.

In one way (HOT aircooled engine) this is indeed a candidate for synthetic oil - but yes with no filtration you can only go so long. I say if you should give it some thought.

 

[1sttruck]

I added a full flow oil filter and oil cooler to a 68 that the ex ended up with, and she said that at almost 140k miles it was not only running fine, the mechanic doing a tuneup said that he hadn't seen many with that mileage that were in that condition and that looked that clean. I use to do repairs on VWs to earn a little money, and most with a fair number miles on them had a thick layer of sludge all over the inside of the engine.

I seem to recall using a 40W of some sort, whatever the manuals called for, but these days I'd be using a 15W40 or 5W40 HDEO.

The #1 reason that one use to see VWs on the side of the road with blackened engine compartments was the fuel line running to the carb; it would get old, crack, and leak all over the hot engine.

 

[johnd]

That last post made me laugh. I told an employee one time that his sloppy work saved my car. my son and I jointly restored a '68 bug which he still drives. I was leaving the office in it one night and I realized that Eric hadn't locked the gate so I left the car running and locked it. When I walked back I smelled gas and opened the engine lid to find the fuel line off and gas spuirting everywhere. I'd have never made it home. He just put a new engine and trans in it this year. Both the old and the new are fitted with full flow filters. The old one was really worn out but not a trace of sludge inside. No oil pressure either.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Unlike others, I'd say a 30w would be far better than 10w30 in the summer. Air cooled engines are alot harder on the oil. The oil temp is alot higher than the water cooled motors. A straight weight oil doesn't have to be "poped" up with Vis index improvers. Vis index improvers isn't oil. I've had lawn mower engines that would cook a 10w30 but never a 30w. Now if it were syn., that would be ok as would a heavier dino multi like 15w40, 20w40, 20w50 or 25w50.

 

[Whimsey]

I had a new 1972 Beetle that called for 20W-20 for the cold weather and straight 30 wt for the warm weather. Overall that seemed to work ok. Though in the extreme cold, in Northern NJ anyway, even the 20W-20 was slow to crank and the 30 wt "forget about it". I believe the Beetles were spec'd for single grade oils because multigrade conventional oils were not so "swift" at that time and the VW being aircooled was even harder on oils. With todays oils I'd have no problem running a HD 10w30, high mileage 10w30 or a quality blend 10w30. A 40 wt oil might bog that "powerhouse" engine down a bit. With about 60HP you can't afford to lose too much HP

. Good luck with the Beetle. I had purchased mine new when I was 18 for $1,995. Had lots of fun times with it. But it was a "bit cramped" for taking your girl to a drive in movie. For that I borrowed my father's 1966 Galaxie 500. Plenty of room in the front and back seat

.

Whimsey

 

[mechtech]

I am astounded by krholm's 100k miles and having the part within new specs.
THEN, getting another 200k miles out of it while running perfectly.
All this WITHOUT an oil filter,and on relatively ancient oil technology.
Beyond incredible - it's miraculous!
I have many years of VW under my belt, and I've never seen this, or can I concieve of it happening.

 

[Pablo]

I thought he said he had a filter...I guess not.

Amazing is right. It seemed if someone 75K miles it was total miracle from God himself.

 

[H2GURU]

I owned one of these a long time ago[my father-inlaw called it "Hitler's Revenge"} anyway- the oil cooler does all of the heat extraction in this engine and non-detergents were recommended at the time(1974). I stopped into the local speed shop and the owner said use 20W-40 and I did for 150,000 miles. Non- detergents are still readily available as there was some in Walmart just the other day.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
this subject has been covered in much detail before

One reason for VW recommending monograde oils was the oil cooling arrangement - critical in an air cooled engine
For many years commencing in the early 1960s we had great success with HD monograde oils in VWs
These prevented sludging and deposit build up caused by the oils of the time and the engine's breathing system - and of course the sometimes quite high oil temperatures
HD oils were recommended by Porsche for their air cooled engines too and were their factory fill

I believe that the South American engines are now quite sophisticated in this regard

It is possible to get very high milages out of VW engines once the principles are known - such as regular valve adjustments and oil changes with screen cleaning and cooling air flow maintenance. And of course good fuel and ignition system maintenance too

Doug

 

[Chris142]

My dad got 300K miles out of 2 bugs, a 68 and a 74 running Pennzoil 10w-40.He bought them both new.

Both were wrecked arund 150K and running fine w/o any internal engine work besides valve adjustments and head bolt retorquing as the operators manual states must be done every 3k.

 

[faithfulFrank]

Thank you again guys,
I have learned a lot here. I never knew about valve clearances and adjustments, I'll be sure to read up on how to do that.

johnd's post about the fuel filter got me thinking that the existing fuel filter is just friction fitted and right above the distributor cap. I think it may be wise to reroute that when I change the fuel filter and use some hose clamps, also moving it so it cannot drip right onto the cap if it ever leaked.

I really do not want to have my son drive it in the winter, so I think I'll start looking for a winter car for him.

I do appreciate everyone helping me on a subject that has been covered before. Like I said, I did read them, but did not find anything about the detergent question. It seems clear that the advice of not using detergent oil was not good, even though it came from a main member of a VW club.

I have a lot to learn about caring for VW's....thank you for your help.

Frank D.

 

[427Z06]

15w40 HDEOs like Delo 400, Delvac 1300, Motocraft, Rotella, Supertech may be an excellent choice for May-Oct in Batavia, but for Nov-Apr, I'd consider a 10w30. If you can find any of the above HDEOs in a 10w30, that would be ideal, but if not, any quality conventional 10w30 like Halvoline, Chevron, Pennzoil, Castrol, etc, would be my choice for those cold Western, NY winters.

 

[LarryL]

I've owned about a half dozen bettles and a dozen or more busses from a 49 split-window beetle to a 79 square port 2 litre bus. I live in San Diego so we don't have any weather here and ran 10w30 or 30W. I also put Frantz toilet paper filters on the gas and oil and they worked great. When you use the Frantz on the gas you had to drill out the fittings to alow more gas to flow thru. Also I would pull the oil cooler out of the cooling shroud and mount it some place else where it could get a lot of air, and sometimes with an aux fan and a switch, especially on the busses. As important as good oil was keeping the timing adjusted right, usually with an 09 distributer (mechanical only advance), and keeping those valves adjusted. When you own an air cooled vw you are a lot more envolved in how it works and runs.

 

[1sttruck]

"..except for one bus that was overreved and threw a rod out the case, every VW engine I ever rebuilt failed in the cyinder heads."

About the same for me, except for another not uncommon catastrophic failure, which was loosing one of the studs that attach the oil screen cover; when it's gone all the oil drains out. A friend was overseas and his wife called, saying that the oil light came on and she tried to get home as quickly as possible. It had no oil and was seized up tight.

Valve adjustments are critical, but be careful. A friend bought the 'how to keep your VW alive' per my recommendation, as it has some pretty straightfoward instructions. He proved that not only did he not have any mechanical aptitude, he had negative aptitude :^) When he replaced a fuel pump he didn't shim the pump so it punctured the diaphragm and filled the crankcase with gasoline. After he had it rebuilt he tried adjusting the valves, but evidently got them 180 deg out and bent them, damaging the pistons too. I think that the he burned the book in some frightful ceremony during a full moon.

 

[Propflux01]

Like others on this post, I too, had delved in to the Beetlemania for many years. In every new engine I built, I ran 10w30. in the older, more worn engines, I recommended a good 15w40. If your engine is running smooth, with no oil pressure issues caused by a line-bore job on a worn out case, and using little or no oil, in your climate a 10w30 is what I would run.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Does anybody else think an High Mileage oil would be the way to go?

 

[ediamiam]

quote:

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Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
Does anybody else think an High Mileage oil would be the way to go?

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A High Mileage would work - W/o knowing anything else about the engine, aside from 122k, whether its been rebuilt, leaks, burns oil, gunk in the valve covers, pulling the sump and seeing what falls out...

 

[Jimbo]

Frank,

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of valve adjustments. Actually, except for one bus that was overreved and threw a rod out the case, every VW engine I ever rebuilt failed in the cyinder heads. Bearings and cylinder bores were almost new spec and the heads were cracked, valves burnt and valve guides shot.

My experimental airplane project will probably get a VW engine conversion, so my interest in these engines is getting current again. Oil viscosity recommendations vary from straight 30 to 20W-50 among experienced VW aircraft engine conversion companies. There are some known "tricks" to get more oil flow to the valve train areas.