History, as in when detergent oil was what was normally sold and used. I'm old enough to remember an uncle saying he only used non detergent oil in his new 66 Dodge for whatever reasons..Would early detergent oils be multi grade only? Thanks
Detergent oil history
- Thread starter Truckedup
- Start date
Wasn't it the change from lead babbit bearings to alloy bearings that prompted the move to detergent oil? My recollection is that detergent oil should not be used in engines with lead babbit bearings.
Of course they haven't made engines with those bearings in a very long time now.
Of course they haven't made engines with those bearings in a very long time now.
This is from several decades before I was conceived. I've noticed old Havoline ad's.
Pic circa 1946
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/06/full-55018-45663-il_570xn.1472632079_c5kk.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Pic circa 1946
I read an article yesterday that claimed you don't want detergents/dispersants in engines that do not have filters, so that the contaminates can settle to the oil pan for easy removal, and not keep circulating through the engine.
First time I had given much thought to the process.
First time I had given much thought to the process.
Isn't there directions on using non detergent oil or straight mineral oil in a freshly overhauled engine? I think the idea is that using straight mineral oil 'break in oil' will allow faster ring seating and allow the freshly machined parts the ability to polish the wear surfaces.
I remember working at the airport as an airframe mechanic. We were using ACF 50 as a corrosion preventative with a spray wand. The engine guy got all worried about 'aerosolized' ACF-50 getting into the engine he was working on, claiming that "that crap in the air" would make it so his engine would not break in...
I remember working at the airport as an airframe mechanic. We were using ACF 50 as a corrosion preventative with a spray wand. The engine guy got all worried about 'aerosolized' ACF-50 getting into the engine he was working on, claiming that "that crap in the air" would make it so his engine would not break in...
When I was in my teen years and worked in a Texaco station, the only cars we would use non-detergent oil in were the air cooled VWs. My boss at the time explained that since the VWs had no full flow oil filters from the factory, then it could be harmful for the engine to use detergent based oils.
He worked on a lot of VWs back then as the nearest dealer was 40 miles one way away. He also made a great living installing full flow oil filter kits on rebuilt VW engines that he completed. He would get a kit from JC Whitney as I recall that had a remote filter mount, and plumbing for tapping into the existing oil cooler somehow. He told the owners that with new filter set up, they now could use detergnet based oils, and that their engines should see at least a 1/3 increase in engine life.
Wow, how times have changed.
He worked on a lot of VWs back then as the nearest dealer was 40 miles one way away. He also made a great living installing full flow oil filter kits on rebuilt VW engines that he completed. He would get a kit from JC Whitney as I recall that had a remote filter mount, and plumbing for tapping into the existing oil cooler somehow. He told the owners that with new filter set up, they now could use detergnet based oils, and that their engines should see at least a 1/3 increase in engine life.
Wow, how times have changed.
Do you think the early detergent oils were reasonably effective?
Keep in mind the new for 1955 popular Chevy V8 did not have an oil filter, it was an optional bypass filter.
I am involved in vintage British bikes, only a very small number had paper oil filters. Many used detergent oil. Most now fit a modern filter.
Breaking in rebuilt engines , generally a break in oil is used containing adequate ZDDP and some sort of detergents.
Keep in mind the new for 1955 popular Chevy V8 did not have an oil filter, it was an optional bypass filter.
I am involved in vintage British bikes, only a very small number had paper oil filters. Many used detergent oil. Most now fit a modern filter.
Breaking in rebuilt engines , generally a break in oil is used containing adequate ZDDP and some sort of detergents.
I always read that conventional should be used for break-in & the first OCI, & not to switch to synthetic until the second oil change-but, as almost all new engines come with synthetic in the sump from the factory, maybe that was wrong...
+1 widman. Detergent oil for engines with oil filters. Ed
Originally Posted by FabricGATOR
Isn't there directions on using non detergent oil or straight mineral oil in a freshly overhauled engine? I think the idea is that using straight mineral oil 'break in oil' will allow faster ring seating and allow the freshly machined parts the ability to polish the wear surfaces.
It was/is my understanding that you didn't want detergents in your break-in oil because it might 'wash away' the assembly and break-in lube from the rotating parts. I rebuilt dozens of engines in the 90's (mild to wild) using a moly based assembly lube (from Pep Boys) and a half bottle of GM EOS along with the ND-30 oil. Once run for half hour (to break in the camshaft), the oil and filter was replaced with more ND-30 and a whole container of EOS for 500 miles. (There was still plenty of residual assembly lube left in the engine) Beyond that I recommended a name brand 10w30, but the customer was free to do whatever they wanted. Many of these engines are running today.
Isn't there directions on using non detergent oil or straight mineral oil in a freshly overhauled engine? I think the idea is that using straight mineral oil 'break in oil' will allow faster ring seating and allow the freshly machined parts the ability to polish the wear surfaces.
It was/is my understanding that you didn't want detergents in your break-in oil because it might 'wash away' the assembly and break-in lube from the rotating parts. I rebuilt dozens of engines in the 90's (mild to wild) using a moly based assembly lube (from Pep Boys) and a half bottle of GM EOS along with the ND-30 oil. Once run for half hour (to break in the camshaft), the oil and filter was replaced with more ND-30 and a whole container of EOS for 500 miles. (There was still plenty of residual assembly lube left in the engine) Beyond that I recommended a name brand 10w30, but the customer was free to do whatever they wanted. Many of these engines are running today.
Originally Posted by Truckedup
Do you think the early detergent oils were reasonably effective?
Keep in mind the new for 1955 popular Chevy V8 did not have an oil filter, it was an optional bypass filter. ..
Same was true of the six cylinder version, at least that recently. I knew someone who had had one, without oil filter. My parents' 1954 (same engine) did have the optional oil filter---and always used detergent oil. I believe GM recommended only detergent oil by then.
Do you think the early detergent oils were reasonably effective?
Keep in mind the new for 1955 popular Chevy V8 did not have an oil filter, it was an optional bypass filter. ..
Same was true of the six cylinder version, at least that recently. I knew someone who had had one, without oil filter. My parents' 1954 (same engine) did have the optional oil filter---and always used detergent oil. I believe GM recommended only detergent oil by then.
Truckedup I am involved in vintage British bikes said:
Originally Posted by Silk
Ball and roller bottom ends usually no filter, just a couple of strainers, but with shell bearings the infamous sludge trap...eg Triumph twins.
Most all Brit bike twins had ball bearing mains and plain bearing con rods. The sludge trap is actually quite effective but requires crankshaft removal to clean.When it was 30K miles between overhauls, not such a big deal...The spin on filter is plumbed into the oil return line and the sludge trap will not be an issue .....Ttriumph did fit return line filters on available to the public 500 GP racers around 1950.
Ball and roller bottom ends usually no filter, just a couple of strainers, but with shell bearings the infamous sludge trap...eg Triumph twins.
Most all Brit bike twins had ball bearing mains and plain bearing con rods. The sludge trap is actually quite effective but requires crankshaft removal to clean.When it was 30K miles between overhauls, not such a big deal...The spin on filter is plumbed into the oil return line and the sludge trap will not be an issue .....Ttriumph did fit return line filters on available to the public 500 GP racers around 1950.
Well, there was the BSA timing side bush, and some Triumphs had that too (early unit 350/500), and the AMC twins had a plain centre bearing. But sludge traps and centrifugal filters in general do a good job...but are never an easy maintenance item.
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