Depictions of diplomatic immunity

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I was watching a show that's supposedly based in New York City, where they portrayed a consular official and his family members as having full diplomatic immunity. Drives me crazy since that's not really a thing unless there's some sort of agreement with the country for the equivalent of diplomatic immunity. I guess it all goes back to Lethal Weapon 2, where they portrayed the consular officials at the South African Consulate-General in Los Angeles as misusing their diplomatic immunity.

There was this case a few years ago with an apparently psycho consular officer at the Consulate-General of Japan in San Francisco. He was actually arrested and tried for assult on his wife, and a lot of questions were about "diplomatic immunity" which he didn't have. He had a more limited consular immunity that would apply to official acts for his country. Assaulting his wife was not one of them.


Still - in NYC there could be an out. Missions to the United Nations supposedly come with the equivalent of diplomatic immunity.
 
Diplomatic immunity is frequently misrepresented. For example, a firearm may not be placed in a dip pouch. Are there only papers in that 40-pound "pouch"? 😝
 
My wife had it when we met. What’s the question I probably know the answer.

I would expect NYC, LA, and DC to know what to do when encountering an A-1.

One benefit is when she flew in to JFK there was no customs to clear or rather a special line. I told her with all seriousness don’t ever let someone who knows you can do that, place anything in your bag.

There was an incident where one of her coworkers was beating his wife. Zero NYPD could do other than to document it. However, a warning arrived by mail from DOS.

They have to pay their parking tix, it’s a myth they do not. DOS won’t renew the plates if not paid.

If they have a child in the USA while an A-1, said child is not a US Citizen.

I could go on 🙂

Ps I did enjoy all the soirées. It’s too bad I don’t like extremely expensive scotch. I’m talking 2006. Her boss had an apt that was $16k/mo in midtown Manhattan.
 
My wife had it when we met. What’s the question I probably know the answer.

I would expect NYC, LA, and DC to know what to do when encountering an A-1.

One benefit is when she flew in to JFK there was no customs to clear or rather a special line. I told her with all seriousness don’t ever let someone who knows you can do that, place anything in your bag.

There was an incident where one of her coworkers was beating his wife. Zero NYPD could do other than to document it. However, a warning arrived by mail from DOS.

They have to pay their parking tix, it’s a myth they do not. DOS won’t renew the plates if not paid.

If they have a child in the USA while an A-1, said child is not a US Citizen.

I could go on 🙂

Ps I did enjoy all the soirées. It’s too bad I don’t like extremely expensive scotch. I’m talking 2006. Her boss had an apt that was $16k/mo in midtown Manhattan.

Even consulates get the benefit of inviolability of the premises and the use of diplomatic pouches that aren't subject to search.

That being said, I was thinking of actual immunity against being subject to the law of the host nation. Consular officials for the most don't have that sort of immunity, and their families don't have any consular immunity either. Also - USCIS doesn't consider the children of consular officers born in the US to lack birthright citizenship, as the parents aren't legally considered diplomats.

A person born in the United States to a foreign diplomatic officer accredited to the United States is not subject to the jurisdiction of United States law. Therefore, that person cannot be considered a U.S. citizen at birth under the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. This person may, however, be considered a permanent resident at birth and able to receive a Green Card through creation of record.

To determine whether your parent is a foreign diplomatic officer, your parent’s accredited title must be listed in the State Department Diplomatic List, also known as the Blue List. This list includes:

  • Ambassadors
  • Ministers
  • Charges d’affaires
  • Counselors
  • Secretaries and attaches of embassies and legations
  • Members of the Delegation of the Commission of the European Communities
It also includes those with comparable diplomatic status and immunities assigned to the United Nations or to the Organization of American States and other persons who have comparable diplomatic status.
 
Oh no, I hope that won't cause a Copyright strike. BTW, Joss Ackland who played the sleazy diplomat died a few months ago.

Like I said previously, not technically a diplomat, and certainly not with diplomatic immunity.

I thought that his best work was in the Mighty Ducks series as the hockey equipment provider.
 
Dad of a friend used be a Consular General. It fit his OUI filled lifestyle. :rolleyes:
 
Ps I did enjoy all the soirées. It’s too bad I don’t like extremely expensive scotch. I’m talking 2006. Her boss had an apt that was $16k/mo in midtown Manhattan.

I've only been to one consular event. It was some sort of business-organization event (that my wife was interested in) at the Consulate-General of China in San Francisco. I'd been there previously to obtain a visa, but otherwise hadn't been to this ballroom in the consulate. I don't know if I would call it a soirée. The food was buffet style and was frankly worse than Panda Express.
 
I've only been to one consular event. It was some sort of business-organization event (that my wife was interested in) at the Consulate-General of China in San Francisco. I'd been there previously to obtain a visa, but otherwise hadn't been to this ballroom in the consulate. I don't know if I would call it a soirée. The food was buffet style and was frankly worse than Panda Express.
I don’t know what consular technically means. My wife’s boss was an ambassador. When we were married it was not clear how to go from A1 to permanent resident. She said we should get an attorney but I said no need I’ll figure it out online, which I did. It’s a rare thing because normally a person’s status is higher in their home country they don’t want to be a us green card holder.

One time I offered a colossal shrimp to a driver, and immediately from his reaction realized I had committed a faux pas
 
I’m a fairly recently-retired senior supervisory federal agent. As far as I knew it, diplomatic immunity was based on meeting conditions of admission. Committing a crime on US soil violated the condition and the person could then be placed into removal proceedings. Local court couldn’t prosecute, but DHS agencies (CIS and ICE in particular) could certainly revoke the visa. DoS would get the call after the charging document was issued.

I’d never seen it in action, but that’s what my training indicated.
 
I don’t know what consular technically means. My wife’s boss was an ambassador. When we were married it was not clear how to go from A1 to permanent resident. She said we should get an attorney but I said no need I’ll figure it out online, which I did. It’s a rare thing because normally a person’s status is higher in their home country they don’t want to be a us green card holder.

One time I offered a colossal shrimp to a driver, and immediately from his reaction realized I had committed a faux pas

OK. Didn't quite understand what A-1 meant. However, I looked it up (visa designation) and that applies to consular officers too.

Diplomats and Officials Requiring A-1 Visas - Examples:

  • Head of State or Government, regardless of the purpose of travel
  • Ambassador, Public Minister, Career Diplomat or Consular Officer coming to serve at a foreign embassy or consulate in the United States, such as an ambassador or consul
But in terms of diplomatic and consular immunity, it really depends on all sorts of things.

Consular Officers
Consular officers are those members of consular posts who are recognized by both the sending and the host country as fully authorized to perform the broad array of formal consular functions. They have only official acts or functional immunity in respect of both criminal and civil matters, and their personal inviolability is quite limited. Consular officers may be arrested or detained pending trial only if the offense is a felony and that​
the arrest is made pursuant to a decision by a competent judicial authority (e.g., a warrant issued by an appropriate court). They can be prosecuted for misdemeanors, but remain at liberty pending trial or other disposition of charges. Property of consular officers is not inviolable. Consular officers are not obliged to provide evidence as witnesses in connection with matters involving their official duties, to produce official documents, or to provide expert witness testimony on the laws of the sending country. Absent a bilateral agreement, the family members of consular officers enjoy no personal inviolability and no jurisdictional immunity of any kind.​
As indicated, official acts immunity pertains in numerous different circumstances. No law enforcement officer, U.S. Department of State officer, diplomatic mission, or consulate is authorized to determine whether a given set
of circumstances constitutes an official act. This is an issue which may only be resolved by the court with subject matter jurisdiction over the alleged crime. Thus, a person enjoying official acts immunity from criminal jurisdiction may be charged with a crime and may, in this connection, always be required to appear in court (in person or through counsel). At this point, however, such person may assert as an affirmative defense that the actions complained of arose in connection with the performance of official acts. If, upon examination of the
circumstances complained of, the court agrees, then the court is without jurisdiction to proceed and the case must be dismissed. Law enforcement officers are requested to contact the Department of State before arresting a consular officer, or, if not possible, immediately after arrest.​
Consular officers who are full-time practitioners of consular functions are referred to as “career” consular officers. These officers are normally nationals of the sending country who are sent to the United States to perform these functions for a specific period and then are transferred to a further assignment. Career consular officers are prohibited by international law from engaging in professional or commercial activities outside the scope of their official consular functions.​
********​
Special Bilateral Agreements
In some cases, a country and the United States have concluded a bilateral consular agreement that grants to members of the staff of their consulates (provided they are not U.S. nationals, legal permanent residents, or permanently resident in the United States) privileges and immunities approximating those afforded diplomatic agents. Law enforcement officers should be aware that these arrangements are not uniform and the U.S. Department of State identification cards issued to these persons reflect the appropriate level of immunity.​

I heard of a Chinese Consul-General in the UK (Manchester) going out and physically attacking a protester outside the consulate. I researched it and apparently the UK has a bilateral agreement that gives them the equivalent of diplomatic immunity, so he couldn't be tried for it. And in any case there's the possibility of claiming that it was an "official act" on behalf of his country.

 
I’m a fairly recently-retired senior supervisory federal agent. As far as I knew it, diplomatic immunity was based on meeting conditions of admission. Committing a crime on US soil violated the condition and the person could then be placed into removal proceedings. Local court couldn’t prosecute, but DHS agencies (CIS and ICE in particular) could certainly revoke the visa. DoS would get the call after the charging document was issued.

I’d never seen it in action, but that’s what my training indicated.

Sure. Declaring someone persona non grata.

I was following the case of Indian Deputy Consulate-General Devangi Khobragade and her case of alleged visa and employment fraud. She was arrested and booked in Manhattan, including a controversial strip search as done for all people entering federal detention. It was noted that she had no diplomatic immunity. What ended up happening to her was that they eventually transferred her to the UN mission in NYC and then asserted the immunity that came with that. The State Dept accepted her credentials, immediately requested that immunity be waived, the Indian government refused, and they then declared her persona non grata and she left.

Her case was really complex too since her husband was a US citizen and it was noted that her children had US passports, in contravention of their laws that don't allow dual-nationality. The entire family (including the husband) eventually moved to India
 
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