dedicated snows vs all seasons
- Thread starter chado_skins
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Originally Posted By: Picky1
No doubt they are pricy, but you are getting basically two tires in one. So no need to purchase & store snow tires and a 2nd set of rims...as well as switch tires out twice a year.
Two tires in one... neither of which is as good as a dedicated tire in any given season. That's the point.
Plus, what happens when winter rolls around and this two-in-one tire is at low tread depth but not quite ready to be replaced? Do you replace it early and lose some of the cost savings, or do you ride the winter out on tires that have neither the right compound nor the right amount of tread?
Having multiple tire sets lets you get more useful life out of each set. If you run either set down to low tread depth, at least they'll still have the right compound for the season.
No doubt they are pricy, but you are getting basically two tires in one. So no need to purchase & store snow tires and a 2nd set of rims...as well as switch tires out twice a year.
Two tires in one... neither of which is as good as a dedicated tire in any given season. That's the point.
Plus, what happens when winter rolls around and this two-in-one tire is at low tread depth but not quite ready to be replaced? Do you replace it early and lose some of the cost savings, or do you ride the winter out on tires that have neither the right compound nor the right amount of tread?
Having multiple tire sets lets you get more useful life out of each set. If you run either set down to low tread depth, at least they'll still have the right compound for the season.
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
decided to see if any shops offer the free remount and balance if tires purchased there, as someone suggested... there is one! kost tire qouted me 504 (installed) for hankook RWII-IPIKE tires. with free remount and balnace of my other tires when spring comes (and at any point in the future for life of tires). this seems about the best deal, to utilize all of my tread, get dedicated snows, and save a few duckets!
these tires get overall good reviews...except one aspect seems to be packed snow, which is lacks grip for. rather confusing for a SNOW tire...most of the time you're on packed snow of some sort!
Where do you live that most of the time your vehicle is on packed snow of some sort? No snow plows where you live?
Krzys
decided to see if any shops offer the free remount and balance if tires purchased there, as someone suggested... there is one! kost tire qouted me 504 (installed) for hankook RWII-IPIKE tires. with free remount and balnace of my other tires when spring comes (and at any point in the future for life of tires). this seems about the best deal, to utilize all of my tread, get dedicated snows, and save a few duckets!
these tires get overall good reviews...except one aspect seems to be packed snow, which is lacks grip for. rather confusing for a SNOW tire...most of the time you're on packed snow of some sort!
Where do you live that most of the time your vehicle is on packed snow of some sort? No snow plows where you live?
Krzys
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Where do you live that most of the time your vehicle is on packed snow of some sort? No snow plows where you live?
Krzys
not that everytime i drive it's on packed snow, more like when i'm driving in bad weather, eg it's snowing, there is almost always SOME snow on the road. unless you drive behind a plow truck everywhere you go...overall they are pretty good at plowing the roads in my area, but they can only plow so much. when it's snowing hard, they simply can't keep up and there's going to be pack snow on the road.
Where do you live that most of the time your vehicle is on packed snow of some sort? No snow plows where you live?
Krzys
not that everytime i drive it's on packed snow, more like when i'm driving in bad weather, eg it's snowing, there is almost always SOME snow on the road. unless you drive behind a plow truck everywhere you go...overall they are pretty good at plowing the roads in my area, but they can only plow so much. when it's snowing hard, they simply can't keep up and there's going to be pack snow on the road.
Originally Posted By: crj19
People miss the whole point of winter tires, they are not good just in snow but anytime the temperature is below 45F. They don't harden like normal tires in low temperatures because of the Silica in the tire, so you get better traction even on dry roads with a winter tire when its cold out. Plus they are much safer when there is snow or ice on the road.
Most all-season tires can handle temps under 45 deg F just fine; many are extremely high-silica, which is supposed to help with flexibility in cold temps. I've driven summer tires where it was that cold, and it was a little scary.
People miss the whole point of winter tires, they are not good just in snow but anytime the temperature is below 45F. They don't harden like normal tires in low temperatures because of the Silica in the tire, so you get better traction even on dry roads with a winter tire when its cold out. Plus they are much safer when there is snow or ice on the road.
Most all-season tires can handle temps under 45 deg F just fine; many are extremely high-silica, which is supposed to help with flexibility in cold temps. I've driven summer tires where it was that cold, and it was a little scary.
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
been batting this around past few days...maybe you guys can help me decide one way or another. vehicle is a 2004 santa fe 4wd. current all seasons are goodyear fortera, with about 5/32 left. i've read they are decent in the snow. location is NEPA, so winters can be harsh. i only drive 10 miles one way to work, but it's up and down a mountain. tirerack has a combo set i was considering. bfgoodrich KS1 winter slalom, 77 each, and basic rims at 94 each. totals out at 800 and i have a set of rims for easy changing. or stick with the all seasons and replace when needed (i'm not replacing them at 5/32). last winter i drove a RWD ford ranger (with bad shocks at the time) up and down this mountain on all seasons, and while i never got into an accident, it was pretty nerve racking. part of me thinks considering i can drive a [censored] rwd, the 4wd and all seasons should be enough and i can save myself the 800$ investment and just buy new all seasons at some point next year... part of wants to err on the side of being prepared to drive through anything...i also went with just liability ins coverage to save some duckets, so the dedicated snows could be considered self insurance...
looking for viewpoints i guess. seems every other day i "decide" lol
I would be more concerned about only having 5/32 of tread left. That is just 2/32 away from legal replacement( most states anyway ). I have driven in NH winters for decades using quality AS tires. If I were you I would just get a quality AS tire and replace your worn GY's with a set that is good year round. Something like the Firestone Destination LE2 which I can personally attest is a great AS in bad weather on a small SUV.
been batting this around past few days...maybe you guys can help me decide one way or another. vehicle is a 2004 santa fe 4wd. current all seasons are goodyear fortera, with about 5/32 left. i've read they are decent in the snow. location is NEPA, so winters can be harsh. i only drive 10 miles one way to work, but it's up and down a mountain. tirerack has a combo set i was considering. bfgoodrich KS1 winter slalom, 77 each, and basic rims at 94 each. totals out at 800 and i have a set of rims for easy changing. or stick with the all seasons and replace when needed (i'm not replacing them at 5/32). last winter i drove a RWD ford ranger (with bad shocks at the time) up and down this mountain on all seasons, and while i never got into an accident, it was pretty nerve racking. part of me thinks considering i can drive a [censored] rwd, the 4wd and all seasons should be enough and i can save myself the 800$ investment and just buy new all seasons at some point next year... part of wants to err on the side of being prepared to drive through anything...i also went with just liability ins coverage to save some duckets, so the dedicated snows could be considered self insurance...
looking for viewpoints i guess. seems every other day i "decide" lol
I would be more concerned about only having 5/32 of tread left. That is just 2/32 away from legal replacement( most states anyway ). I have driven in NH winters for decades using quality AS tires. If I were you I would just get a quality AS tire and replace your worn GY's with a set that is good year round. Something like the Firestone Destination LE2 which I can personally attest is a great AS in bad weather on a small SUV.
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
decided to see if any shops offer the free remount and balance if tires purchased there, as someone suggested... there is one! kost tire qouted me 504 (installed) for hankook RWII-IPIKE tires. with free remount and balnace of my other tires when spring comes (and at any point in the future for life of tires). this seems about the best deal, to utilize all of my tread, get dedicated snows, and save a few duckets!
these tires get overall good reviews...except one aspect seems to be packed snow, which is lacks grip for. rather confusing for a SNOW tire...most of the time you're on packed snow of some sort!
The trap to watch for is they might not mount summer tires with lower than some arbitrarily high tread depth like 4-5/32, so you'll lose your "last summer". Or they'll trap you into an alignment.
I worked at a tire shop that offered free winter changeover but it was just mounting, balancing cost $$$.
As a customer I'd say, fine, just mount 'em, and hope the tech spaced and put the weights on anyway.
What size rims? Santa fes aren't all that blingy and the bolt pattern semi common, you should be able to get junkyard ones.
decided to see if any shops offer the free remount and balance if tires purchased there, as someone suggested... there is one! kost tire qouted me 504 (installed) for hankook RWII-IPIKE tires. with free remount and balnace of my other tires when spring comes (and at any point in the future for life of tires). this seems about the best deal, to utilize all of my tread, get dedicated snows, and save a few duckets!
these tires get overall good reviews...except one aspect seems to be packed snow, which is lacks grip for. rather confusing for a SNOW tire...most of the time you're on packed snow of some sort!
The trap to watch for is they might not mount summer tires with lower than some arbitrarily high tread depth like 4-5/32, so you'll lose your "last summer". Or they'll trap you into an alignment.
I worked at a tire shop that offered free winter changeover but it was just mounting, balancing cost $$$.
What size rims? Santa fes aren't all that blingy and the bolt pattern semi common, you should be able to get junkyard ones.
i went ahead and got hankook RW IPIKEs, winter tires. came to 491 installed. i asked the service guy three times about spring/winter changover, and said free free free. guess i'll find out in the spring! the OEM size (which is what i got) 225/70/16.
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
are chains even legal to drive on public roads? i won't be putting any chains on my car.
No. Chains are only legal on private property or during an emergency (I think emergency is defined as being stuck, or temporary severe weather conditions. The operative words there being temporary and severe.)
Having had a dedicated set of snow tires for more than one car, I can tell you there is no substitute for snow tires. At least on my vehicles it changed traction and handling substantially. Also, I believe in the PA/WV area states studded tires are permitted in the winter.
Studs are nice for sure.
Comparing all season tires to real snow tires isn't even a comparison. Living here in the prairies we get pounded with snow then that volume gets blown around so the roads get accumulation no matter how you cut the dice.
So I don't even give it a second thought anymore. I buy snow tires. Period.
First off i don't care about whether or not I get tire spin I'm concerned about stopping especially in an emergency situation. That is possibly life or death.
I buy good summer tires on my nicer rims then buy used cheap rims off kijiji for snow tires. It's a no brainer.
It only takes a second for a child to be not paying attention and run into the street when icy road conditions exist and since I'm not perfect I might have my attention placed elsewhere for a half second and at that moment a kid playing nets just happend to run into the street right in front of me chasing his ball and I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing because I was cheap or stupid I didn't spend the money on a dedicated snow tire and someone got hurt.
And snow tires are cheaper or very close in cost to my deductible so if I can prevent one rear ender I broke even on purchasing them.
Prevent 2 and I'm ahead of the game.
I get my snows studded because I put on a lot of rural miles. And in the city I can stop as well in winter as I can with my summer tires during the warmer months.
If one lives where winter exists then winter tires should even be a question. Consider a requirement like insurance or a drivers license.
If on a tight budget plan ahead. 75 a month set aside over the course of a year should cover it.
And I get 5 seasons from my winter tires. As soon as the ambient temp gets higher than freezing I change them out so they don't wear out as fast.
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
are chains even legal to drive on public roads? i won't be putting any chains on my car.
No. Chains are only legal on private property or during an emergency (I think emergency is defined as being stuck, or temporary severe weather conditions. The operative words there being temporary and severe.)
Having had a dedicated set of snow tires for more than one car, I can tell you there is no substitute for snow tires. At least on my vehicles it changed traction and handling substantially. Also, I believe in the PA/WV area states studded tires are permitted in the winter.
Studs are nice for sure.
Comparing all season tires to real snow tires isn't even a comparison. Living here in the prairies we get pounded with snow then that volume gets blown around so the roads get accumulation no matter how you cut the dice.
So I don't even give it a second thought anymore. I buy snow tires. Period.
First off i don't care about whether or not I get tire spin I'm concerned about stopping especially in an emergency situation. That is possibly life or death.
I buy good summer tires on my nicer rims then buy used cheap rims off kijiji for snow tires. It's a no brainer.
It only takes a second for a child to be not paying attention and run into the street when icy road conditions exist and since I'm not perfect I might have my attention placed elsewhere for a half second and at that moment a kid playing nets just happend to run into the street right in front of me chasing his ball and I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing because I was cheap or stupid I didn't spend the money on a dedicated snow tire and someone got hurt.
And snow tires are cheaper or very close in cost to my deductible so if I can prevent one rear ender I broke even on purchasing them.
Prevent 2 and I'm ahead of the game.
I get my snows studded because I put on a lot of rural miles. And in the city I can stop as well in winter as I can with my summer tires during the warmer months.
If one lives where winter exists then winter tires should even be a question. Consider a requirement like insurance or a drivers license.
If on a tight budget plan ahead. 75 a month set aside over the course of a year should cover it.
And I get 5 seasons from my winter tires. As soon as the ambient temp gets higher than freezing I change them out so they don't wear out as fast.
People are TERRIFIED of getting stuck... but don't give any thought as to what might happen if you lose control at 60+ mph on an icy highway...!
Many buy an AWD for just that reason, avoiding getting stuck, but never even consider winter tires...
And that icy highway is where the extra grip of a winter tire is most beneficial. Higher speed on snow and ice challenges the grip of an all-season to the limit... thus the reason that SO MANY cars in the ditch seem to be AWD trucks and suvs running oem all seasons... !
Many buy an AWD for just that reason, avoiding getting stuck, but never even consider winter tires...
And that icy highway is where the extra grip of a winter tire is most beneficial. Higher speed on snow and ice challenges the grip of an all-season to the limit... thus the reason that SO MANY cars in the ditch seem to be AWD trucks and suvs running oem all seasons... !
Originally Posted By: geeman789
People are TERRIFIED of getting stuck... but don't give any thought as to what might happen if you lose control at 60+ mph on an icy highway...!
Many buy an AWD for just that reason, avoiding getting stuck, but never even consider winter tires...
And that icy highway is where the extra grip of a winter tire is most beneficial. Higher speed on snow and ice challenges the grip of an all-season to the limit... thus the reason that SO MANY cars in the ditch seem to be AWD trucks and suvs running oem all seasons... !
Another spot-on post. Really wish more people understood this.
People are TERRIFIED of getting stuck... but don't give any thought as to what might happen if you lose control at 60+ mph on an icy highway...!
Many buy an AWD for just that reason, avoiding getting stuck, but never even consider winter tires...
And that icy highway is where the extra grip of a winter tire is most beneficial. Higher speed on snow and ice challenges the grip of an all-season to the limit... thus the reason that SO MANY cars in the ditch seem to be AWD trucks and suvs running oem all seasons... !
Another spot-on post. Really wish more people understood this.
+1. Well put.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Originally Posted By: geeman789
People are TERRIFIED of getting stuck... but don't give any thought as to what might happen if you lose control at 60+ mph on an icy highway...!
Many buy an AWD for just that reason, avoiding getting stuck, but never even consider winter tires...
And that icy highway is where the extra grip of a winter tire is most beneficial. Higher speed on snow and ice challenges the grip of an all-season to the limit... thus the reason that SO MANY cars in the ditch seem to be AWD trucks and suvs running oem all seasons... !
Agree. last winter I was driving my wife's Tiguan through Blizzar over Hoosier pass in Colorado (12,400ft).
Tig has Blizzak's WS70. No issues, but all vehicles that were stuck were trucks!
People are TERRIFIED of getting stuck... but don't give any thought as to what might happen if you lose control at 60+ mph on an icy highway...!
Many buy an AWD for just that reason, avoiding getting stuck, but never even consider winter tires...
And that icy highway is where the extra grip of a winter tire is most beneficial. Higher speed on snow and ice challenges the grip of an all-season to the limit... thus the reason that SO MANY cars in the ditch seem to be AWD trucks and suvs running oem all seasons... !
Agree. last winter I was driving my wife's Tiguan through Blizzar over Hoosier pass in Colorado (12,400ft).
Tig has Blizzak's WS70. No issues, but all vehicles that were stuck were trucks!
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
You shouldn't be driving 60 MPH on an icy highway with ANY tires on your vehicle. That is not safe.
Agreed. And if ice were always a glossy sheet that covered the entire roadway uniformly and advertised its presence perfectly, that might be the end of the story.
Sometimes the ice is in a thin covering that you can barely see unless the lighting is just right. Sometimes it's in patches that you won't notice until it's too late. What's the solution in those cases? Picking a speed that's "safe" for ice and driving that speed whenever there theoretically might be ice, whether you can see it or not? You'd be driving around half the posted speed limit on a mostly dry highway. Fair enough, but... good luck with that.
...And even then, you'd STILL be better off with winter tires than with all-seasons. Hitting an ice patch at 30 MPH is better than hitting it at 60 MPH, but it's still no joke.
Similarly, even if you ARE driving on a uniform sheet of ice that you know is there -- let's not bother with the obvious question as to why on earth one might do that -- the safety margin/safe speed is MUCH higher with winter tires than it is with all-seasons.
In any winter conditions, the only speed at which all-seasons are as safe as winter tires is 0.0 MPH.
You shouldn't be driving 60 MPH on an icy highway with ANY tires on your vehicle. That is not safe.
Agreed. And if ice were always a glossy sheet that covered the entire roadway uniformly and advertised its presence perfectly, that might be the end of the story.
Sometimes the ice is in a thin covering that you can barely see unless the lighting is just right. Sometimes it's in patches that you won't notice until it's too late. What's the solution in those cases? Picking a speed that's "safe" for ice and driving that speed whenever there theoretically might be ice, whether you can see it or not? You'd be driving around half the posted speed limit on a mostly dry highway. Fair enough, but... good luck with that.
...And even then, you'd STILL be better off with winter tires than with all-seasons. Hitting an ice patch at 30 MPH is better than hitting it at 60 MPH, but it's still no joke.
Similarly, even if you ARE driving on a uniform sheet of ice that you know is there -- let's not bother with the obvious question as to why on earth one might do that -- the safety margin/safe speed is MUCH higher with winter tires than it is with all-seasons.
In any winter conditions, the only speed at which all-seasons are as safe as winter tires is 0.0 MPH.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
You shouldn't be driving 60 MPH on an icy highway with ANY tires on your vehicle. That is not safe.
Agreed. And if ice were always a glossy sheet that covered the entire roadway uniformly and advertised its presence perfectly, that might be the end of the story.
Sometimes the ice is in a thin covering that you can barely see unless the lighting is just right. Sometimes it's in patches that you won't notice until it's too late. What's the solution in those cases? Picking a speed that's "safe" for ice and driving that speed whenever there theoretically might be ice, whether you can see it or not? You'd be driving around half the posted speed limit on a mostly dry highway. Fair enough, but... good luck with that.
...And even then, you'd STILL be better off with winter tires than with all-seasons. Hitting an ice patch at 30 MPH is better than hitting it at 60 MPH, but it's still no joke.
Similarly, even if you ARE driving on a uniform sheet of ice that you know is there -- let's not bother with the obvious question as to why on earth one might do that -- the safety margin/safe speed is MUCH higher with winter tires than it is with all-seasons.
In any winter conditions, the only speed at which all-seasons are as safe as winter tires is 0.0 MPH.
Thanks for the education on road ice. Gee, I never knew any of that even living in NH my whole life.
My POINT is you shouldn't be driving that fast when icy conditions are or MAY BE present. I don't care what you have for tires. If the roads are or could be icy slow down. Period end of story.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
You shouldn't be driving 60 MPH on an icy highway with ANY tires on your vehicle. That is not safe.
Agreed. And if ice were always a glossy sheet that covered the entire roadway uniformly and advertised its presence perfectly, that might be the end of the story.
Sometimes the ice is in a thin covering that you can barely see unless the lighting is just right. Sometimes it's in patches that you won't notice until it's too late. What's the solution in those cases? Picking a speed that's "safe" for ice and driving that speed whenever there theoretically might be ice, whether you can see it or not? You'd be driving around half the posted speed limit on a mostly dry highway. Fair enough, but... good luck with that.
...And even then, you'd STILL be better off with winter tires than with all-seasons. Hitting an ice patch at 30 MPH is better than hitting it at 60 MPH, but it's still no joke.
Similarly, even if you ARE driving on a uniform sheet of ice that you know is there -- let's not bother with the obvious question as to why on earth one might do that -- the safety margin/safe speed is MUCH higher with winter tires than it is with all-seasons.
In any winter conditions, the only speed at which all-seasons are as safe as winter tires is 0.0 MPH.
Thanks for the education on road ice. Gee, I never knew any of that even living in NH my whole life.
My POINT is you shouldn't be driving that fast when icy conditions are or MAY BE present. I don't care what you have for tires. If the roads are or could be icy slow down. Period end of story.
I'm hurt, NHHEMI. I spent the time to write a post explicitly addressing that exact point on multiple levels, and you answered as though you didn't read past the first four sentences.
Do you not love me any more? Was it something I said?
Do you not love me any more? Was it something I said?
I see that you (OP) made your purchase.
I just bought a winter tire "package" from Tirerack.
I bought the recommended size for my vehicle.
The recommended size is significantly more narrow vs the "summer" recommended size for my vehicle.
THIS alone will make a difference in snow.
I notice that I really feel the bumps in the road a LOT more with these tires vs the cushy wide tires that I had on there before......but I can live with that in exchange for better traction in winter driving.
Snow tires in the recommended size for my vehicle (2003 Sienna) ran from a low of about $62 up to the Michelin X-Ice 3 that I bought at $115 a tire.
Add in $52 each for steel wheels.
The nice thing is that Tirerack includes the new lug nuts for the steel wheels, mounting with high speed spin balancing and road hazard insurance all at no extra charge.
Another poster mentioned the X-Ice 3. This is the 3rd generation of the X-Ice line.
It is new enough that Tirerack has not yet done a snow test on them. They did a ice test at a hockey rink.
So, I'm taking a chance there.
I think you made a good move getting snow tires. Chains are something that you have to put on and take off.....a real pain in bad weather.
I was raised in W/PA near where I-80 & I-79 meet and know how bad winter weather can be.....exponentially worse as one goes north from there. I'm now in SE Wisconsin.....and after about 3 years of very mild winters we got slammed last winter.
While they are MUCH better about clearing the snow and salting around here.....it still gets to be tricky.
I just bought a winter tire "package" from Tirerack.
I bought the recommended size for my vehicle.
The recommended size is significantly more narrow vs the "summer" recommended size for my vehicle.
THIS alone will make a difference in snow.
I notice that I really feel the bumps in the road a LOT more with these tires vs the cushy wide tires that I had on there before......but I can live with that in exchange for better traction in winter driving.
Snow tires in the recommended size for my vehicle (2003 Sienna) ran from a low of about $62 up to the Michelin X-Ice 3 that I bought at $115 a tire.
Add in $52 each for steel wheels.
The nice thing is that Tirerack includes the new lug nuts for the steel wheels, mounting with high speed spin balancing and road hazard insurance all at no extra charge.
Another poster mentioned the X-Ice 3. This is the 3rd generation of the X-Ice line.
It is new enough that Tirerack has not yet done a snow test on them. They did a ice test at a hockey rink.
So, I'm taking a chance there.
I think you made a good move getting snow tires. Chains are something that you have to put on and take off.....a real pain in bad weather.
I was raised in W/PA near where I-80 & I-79 meet and know how bad winter weather can be.....exponentially worse as one goes north from there. I'm now in SE Wisconsin.....and after about 3 years of very mild winters we got slammed last winter.
While they are MUCH better about clearing the snow and salting around here.....it still gets to be tricky.
I just took delivery of my own winter wheel/tire package from Tire Rack. I really wanted steel rims, but they weren't available for my car -- minimum rim size is 17", and apparently they don't stock many 17" steelies. Bummer.
At least if these alloys bend, that means less chance of suspension damage...
Winters around here have been really on-and-off in recent years, with occasional snow and temperatures swinging from the 30s to the 60s. That makes straight-up snow/ice tires like the X-Ice a bit difficult to run; AFAIK they give up too much and wear out too quickly in non-snowy conditions. The Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 would have been perfect, but it wasn't available in the size I wanted. I ended up going with the Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3. Tire Rack actually recommended the same tread width as stock, probably because stock for my car isn't all that wide to begin with. I went narrower anyway, though.
Winters around here have been really on-and-off in recent years, with occasional snow and temperatures swinging from the 30s to the 60s. That makes straight-up snow/ice tires like the X-Ice a bit difficult to run; AFAIK they give up too much and wear out too quickly in non-snowy conditions. The Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 would have been perfect, but it wasn't available in the size I wanted. I ended up going with the Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3. Tire Rack actually recommended the same tread width as stock, probably because stock for my car isn't all that wide to begin with. I went narrower anyway, though.
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