Seems like you "had a leg to stand on" and got the out the door price. I'd call that a victory.
Dealership negotiations...
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Eh, I shouldn't have bought. For just a bit more I could have gotten new... fell into the trap of tossing numbers around, "what do you think is a good number". Foolish move on my part to go in, in the first place, as I still regret buying that car two years later.
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It's willingness I guess. Ordering as a way to unequivocally not pay them, where dealer agrees no add ons. I can't say for sure as this is only the 2nd car I've ordered, and 4th new car I've purchased.
Or you can be like my dad, he bought a $39k Buick Envision in 2018 for $30k, and had them remove all the add ons, incl. doc fee and registration. So yes, it can be done. I think he tried the same on a Honda and no, they told him to leave haha
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I learned in 2006 (model year 2007), BMW had a trick. You can negotiate with invoice. Invoice does not show training and MACO, nor does the window sticker. So it's a surprise for all lol
Out the door? As you say, eliminates the above. I didn't say out the door so I got burned. I then said cancel the order, I don't want the car, and I'm not paying some fees you forgot to put on the sale. They removed them.
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Nice, so you've been through the order process many times. Our first with GM. But, it took just under 4 weeks for GM to accept it, which per online, isn't so bad. I was worried that our dealer is a tiny dealer. I've seen online people say order from a high volume dealer or you'll never get your order accepted by GM. Plus, we're talking about a 2025, and ordering opens 7/10/25 for 2026's. I was concerned we'd miss 2025. I'd love to have a 8/25 production on a 2025.
Always be willing to walk away. That is your best leverage.
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Exactly. I did that on all 3 previous purchases and bought elsewhere. The concept of "pride" exists in the car business. Just because I can discount, I don't like your attitude and I won't. You're one of those people who did all your research on the web and know more than I do--so buy your car elsewhere.
I mentioned to a Buick salesman this car has 47 miles I'd prefer a new one. And he got all mad saying this is a new car. Things like that--I never bought into the, "Do I deserve to make any money" BS.
btw our sales mgr on the latest purchase laughed--my wife said where will this car be assembled? She didn't know, so I said, Arlington, TX, UAW local 276. Mgr burst out laughing.
You won't know the number set by corporate, nor the percentage of car,truck, suv or cpo required for the month. The dealership might be honestly really close to their sales goal and need 10 or so sales, or they might be 60 off and won't have a chance to make their sales goal. I worked sales for a VW and Lexus dealership so they told us at a meeting what each months sales goals were and kick backs.
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A total mystery to me, and maybe even those in the business, how does allocation work? I've researched it online. But if you or I walk into a dealer and want to order a GM, fine. They will put it in and it gets checked for constraints and errors, and if ok, becomes a prelim order. Now, it sits waiting for acceptance, and for that to happen, the dealer must apply an available allocation to it. If you walk into my dealer and want to order a Corvette ZR1x or ZR1, of course I want to sell it to you. But I may not have an allocation for you for a long time, so it's not good for you. I've seen online where some buyers were never even given an order # so they are 100% in the dark for months.
I saw a comment order from high volume dealers, not small ones. Our Chevy dealer is tiny, yet order accepted in just under 4 weeks.
I saw a comment order from high volume dealers, not small ones. Our Chevy dealer is tiny, yet order accepted in just under 4 weeks.
How is that their fault? Dealerships cannot mark up an incentivized/promotional rate. If your credit was a tier below, the captive lender - Honda Financial in this case - charges a higher rate, usually 1% or so higher for every additional tier you are down from Super Preferred.
GM usually uses a "turn and burn" strategy where dealers that hit volume, CSI, and certain other metrics (exceeding goals in certain models/trims) get a higher allocation number than others. Technically you can turn down a higher allocation amount but that just means you won't receive it again in the future.
Being in the business for 23 years now I can offer a few helpful suggestions:
* You have to compare apples to apples when price shopping and the only way to do that is to use "Out the Door" numbers and base those on the address you plan to register the vehicle. However, keep in mind, most out of state dealerships - if you are expanding your price shopping that far - cannot include truly "all" of the necessary fees and taxes that your in state dealership can. For example, here in TN, the tax rate is 7% for the state and around $131 for a new license plate. If you buy a car in a different state and register it in TN they might charge you the state sales tax, but cannot charge you for a new plate as they don't have the ability to register your car for you. They'll more than likely charge you $20 or so for a "temp tag" which is good for 60 days until YOU go to your home DMV and PAY to register the vehicle. Certain counties and municipalities have local taxes or fees that out of state dealers cannot charge you but you will have to pay when you get home.
* To truly price shop you literally have to compare two vehicles that are the same model/trim/and true MSRP. If Dealer B has the exact MSRP vehicle as Dealer A but has an addendum sticker (the little thin home made strip next to the Moroney Label window sticker) with $XXXX in fluff such as ceramic coatings, pinstripes, nitrogen in the tires, etc.....I would just skip that Dealer altogether. That dealer has a business model that is going to emphasize front end gross profit and statistically speaking, the odds of getting the better deal there is slim. However, while two vehicles may *seem* the same, one may have accessories from the factory - bedcover, all season mats, running boards, etc - the one with those accessories from the factory is going to have a higher floor that a dealer is willing to settle for since the factory invoice is higher for the dealership with those accessories. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
* A good attitude and being upfront will get you a better deal than being a jerk and lying/misleading. Throwing a trade in at the end when you said you definitely weren't going to trade in just wastes everyone's time. Plus, if you've already negotiated the best deal and throw in something in the end.....you're going to get rough to average wholesale value at best. If every bit of profit (or most of it and the least a dealer deems acceptable) has been scooped out, there is no place to go. As far as trades, many/most states have trade-in tax credits since you paid tax on the trade the first time, at least in TN, you just pay tax on the difference. You buy a $40K vehicle and your trade value is $25K....you pay taxes on the difference of $15k, not the full amount. With our 7% tax rate, that saves you $1750 versus selling your car privately and having to pay the tax amount on the full new vehicle price. And, yes, the dealership will spend a certain amount of money to recondition the vehicle for sale and definitely will sell at a profit. Why else would they accept a trade in other than to resell at a profit?
* Most manufacturers offer incentives that are based on conditions - Owner Loyalty means you CURRENTLY have that brand in your household not just used to have one; Military Appreciation at least for our brand requires you to be active duty, 100% disabled from Service, or having served 20 years and retired not just enlisted 10 years ago; APR Bonus Cash requires you to finance at the promotional rate; Customer Cash is IN LIEU of taking the promotional rate - there is a difference.
* Our dealer group is a no haggle dealership. That means truly no negotiating at all. We cannot throw in a free oil change, key chain, take $50 off the car, add all season floor mats, etc. If we did, it truly wasn't our best price now was it? That being said, if you have the time and resources to call 20 dealerships and get fed a bait and switch by half of them or agree then have something extra added at the end - so be it. 99% of our customers just enjoy coming in, knowing the exact price and total, and buying it and leaving in an hour or so. The back and forth is really what takes the majority of the time - it's a time suck for customers and ethical dealerships alike.
* You have to compare apples to apples when price shopping and the only way to do that is to use "Out the Door" numbers and base those on the address you plan to register the vehicle. However, keep in mind, most out of state dealerships - if you are expanding your price shopping that far - cannot include truly "all" of the necessary fees and taxes that your in state dealership can. For example, here in TN, the tax rate is 7% for the state and around $131 for a new license plate. If you buy a car in a different state and register it in TN they might charge you the state sales tax, but cannot charge you for a new plate as they don't have the ability to register your car for you. They'll more than likely charge you $20 or so for a "temp tag" which is good for 60 days until YOU go to your home DMV and PAY to register the vehicle. Certain counties and municipalities have local taxes or fees that out of state dealers cannot charge you but you will have to pay when you get home.
* To truly price shop you literally have to compare two vehicles that are the same model/trim/and true MSRP. If Dealer B has the exact MSRP vehicle as Dealer A but has an addendum sticker (the little thin home made strip next to the Moroney Label window sticker) with $XXXX in fluff such as ceramic coatings, pinstripes, nitrogen in the tires, etc.....I would just skip that Dealer altogether. That dealer has a business model that is going to emphasize front end gross profit and statistically speaking, the odds of getting the better deal there is slim. However, while two vehicles may *seem* the same, one may have accessories from the factory - bedcover, all season mats, running boards, etc - the one with those accessories from the factory is going to have a higher floor that a dealer is willing to settle for since the factory invoice is higher for the dealership with those accessories. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
* A good attitude and being upfront will get you a better deal than being a jerk and lying/misleading. Throwing a trade in at the end when you said you definitely weren't going to trade in just wastes everyone's time. Plus, if you've already negotiated the best deal and throw in something in the end.....you're going to get rough to average wholesale value at best. If every bit of profit (or most of it and the least a dealer deems acceptable) has been scooped out, there is no place to go. As far as trades, many/most states have trade-in tax credits since you paid tax on the trade the first time, at least in TN, you just pay tax on the difference. You buy a $40K vehicle and your trade value is $25K....you pay taxes on the difference of $15k, not the full amount. With our 7% tax rate, that saves you $1750 versus selling your car privately and having to pay the tax amount on the full new vehicle price. And, yes, the dealership will spend a certain amount of money to recondition the vehicle for sale and definitely will sell at a profit. Why else would they accept a trade in other than to resell at a profit?
* Most manufacturers offer incentives that are based on conditions - Owner Loyalty means you CURRENTLY have that brand in your household not just used to have one; Military Appreciation at least for our brand requires you to be active duty, 100% disabled from Service, or having served 20 years and retired not just enlisted 10 years ago; APR Bonus Cash requires you to finance at the promotional rate; Customer Cash is IN LIEU of taking the promotional rate - there is a difference.
* Our dealer group is a no haggle dealership. That means truly no negotiating at all. We cannot throw in a free oil change, key chain, take $50 off the car, add all season floor mats, etc. If we did, it truly wasn't our best price now was it? That being said, if you have the time and resources to call 20 dealerships and get fed a bait and switch by half of them or agree then have something extra added at the end - so be it. 99% of our customers just enjoy coming in, knowing the exact price and total, and buying it and leaving in an hour or so. The back and forth is really what takes the majority of the time - it's a time suck for customers and ethical dealerships alike.
Your dealer needs to have "allocation" for the vehicle you order. GM limits the number of certain models the dealers can order. If your dealer does not have allocation they typically will shade the buyer into thinking GM is dragging their feet on your order instead of admitting they dont have it and losing the sale. I lucked out with my truck in April, the dealer had a new allocation the day I ordered it and the order was accepted immediately and built less than 2 weeks later. I have bought close to 20 new vehicles over my life and have been around long enough that I used to get GMS 15% (stock unit) pricing and GMO (ordered unit) with the employee discount (family members) unfortunately those days are long gone.
Chances are if production starts on 7/10/25 its likely that the production schedule has already been wrapped up by now. I had this happen on our Equinox where they closed orders 3 months before the end of that model year. I ended up taking one from stock that time.
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I've helped some friends and family with car purchases recently. I obviously did homework and was able to get what I wanted every time. Just gotta research a little, and have a number once you come in. I give the number right away, and they come back with something twice as high. Then it's a game of them going back and forth to "talk with the bank" or to "talk with the manager" to "see what they can do". That part is long and annoying. But usually after 3-5 hours I get the price or payment that I initially indicated, they're happy with the sale, and new owner is happy with the terms/price. Longest yet is 8 hours. As part of the initial research I did pick the more lenient dealers, and skipped those who seem too proud and immovable on the price, like the Scott Clark Toyota for example.
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My experience is, it depends. Some dealerships already reached their goals and have low inventories, and they can wait for a more willing higher paying customer for the vehicle you are looking to low ball on. Some would probably try to run ads on vehicles sat on their lots and therefore would want to hussle. I drove 4 hours away to get the vehicle I want for $5k cheaper because it sat on their lot but already sold out in my area (it was a left over model from the year before).
You won't know but based on what the salesperson say, you are not going to be able to lowball him much. Maybe another dealer or another hard to sell car in this dealer. Most people when haggle (whether it is for home purchase, car purchase, or job interview salary negotiation) fail to realize it is not just what they want but also what other choices the other sides have. You can be competing for a house with nobody or you can be competing with a millionaire who wants to live next to your neighbor's daughter because his son has a crush on her, or you are competing with a person who needs the job because his mortgage is overdue and any job is better than no job. Just move on if you can't get it and don't take it personally thinking that it is a failure if you can't close the deal.
Plus don't forget the trade war right now means they won't run out of popular vehicles any time soon, or they would rather wait than sell something at a lower profit.
You won't know but based on what the salesperson say, you are not going to be able to lowball him much. Maybe another dealer or another hard to sell car in this dealer. Most people when haggle (whether it is for home purchase, car purchase, or job interview salary negotiation) fail to realize it is not just what they want but also what other choices the other sides have. You can be competing for a house with nobody or you can be competing with a millionaire who wants to live next to your neighbor's daughter because his son has a crush on her, or you are competing with a person who needs the job because his mortgage is overdue and any job is better than no job. Just move on if you can't get it and don't take it personally thinking that it is a failure if you can't close the deal.
Plus don't forget the trade war right now means they won't run out of popular vehicles any time soon, or they would rather wait than sell something at a lower profit.
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All those “protection” items are INVISIBLES! How do I know they even were applied to the paint, the interior? My wife worked at a dealer that charged for them and did NOTHING to the car. I tell dealers now, “make all that stuff invisible on your invoice or I go elsewhere. I’m not buying anything I can’t see.
The end of the month is always the best time to buy a car your likely to get the best deal from the dealership. That said 16.000.000 million cars were sold in 2024 so not as slow as some make it out to be.
I think we saw a fundamental change due to Covid.
It was truly a buyer's market prior to 2020, but quickly turned into one where dealers discovered that not only could they get sticker for what they had to sell but that they could even mark that up 10 or 20% and those needing a replacement car to drive to work and in general would pay it.
It was so bad that the last car my mother got, a 2019 Fit that she leased because she doubted she'd want to drive after that, had a buyout that I originally thought was absurd that suddenly looked like a hot deal come 2022. Two of my sisters actually battled over buying it.
Manufacturers took note of this as well, so the deal base vehicles have largely disappeared.
All of this trickles down to the used market as well and it is the larger market.
Right now it looks like there are plenty of dealers more willing to sit on inventory than to price it to move.
There will not be a reset until the next recession, when it will again become a buyer's market.
It was truly a buyer's market prior to 2020, but quickly turned into one where dealers discovered that not only could they get sticker for what they had to sell but that they could even mark that up 10 or 20% and those needing a replacement car to drive to work and in general would pay it.
It was so bad that the last car my mother got, a 2019 Fit that she leased because she doubted she'd want to drive after that, had a buyout that I originally thought was absurd that suddenly looked like a hot deal come 2022. Two of my sisters actually battled over buying it.
Manufacturers took note of this as well, so the deal base vehicles have largely disappeared.
All of this trickles down to the used market as well and it is the larger market.
Right now it looks like there are plenty of dealers more willing to sit on inventory than to price it to move.
There will not be a reset until the next recession, when it will again become a buyer's market.
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