Thanks for all the suggestions. Much appreciated.
Dash Cam 101
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Cell phone is not the same as a dash cam.
No duh.. but it's still a recording device. It makes no difference to a court if you were using a cell phone or a dash cam or an endoscope fresh out of your butt, attached to your laptop to record...a police officer can not arbitrarily confiscate your device. Period. Neither can they tell you to turn it off, turn it on or give them the footage, lacking an exigent circumstance like a murder or street riot (-an auto accident doesn't supercede your 4thAm right) or a court warrant or subpoena. /end of discussion.
Police want your cell phone because they want to determine if you were using it when the accident occurred. It has nothing to do with the recording feature of the phone itself. Dash cams haven't been fleshed out in the courts that I know of. The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Cell phone is not the same as a dash cam.
No duh.. but it's still a recording device. It makes no difference to a court if you were using a cell phone or a dash cam or an endoscope fresh out of your butt, attached to your laptop to record...a police officer can not arbitrarily confiscate your device. Period. Neither can they tell you to turn it off, turn it on or give them the footage, lacking an exigent circumstance like a murder or street riot (-an auto accident doesn't supercede your 4thAm right) or a court warrant or subpoena. /end of discussion.
Police want your cell phone because they want to determine if you were using it when the accident occurred. It has nothing to do with the recording feature of the phone itself. Dash cams haven't been fleshed out in the courts that I know of. The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
Triple_Se7en
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
In the event of a felony, yes you will either forfeit the password code, or be forced to open the document/video yourself, just prior to seizure by the police.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
In the event of a felony, yes you will either forfeit the password code, or be forced to open the document/video yourself, just prior to seizure by the police.
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
In the event of a felony, yes you will either forfeit the password code, or be forced to open the document/video yourself, just prior to seizure by the police.
Wrong..."The Fifth Amendment protects you from being forced to give the government self-incriminating testimony. Courts have generally accepted that telling the government a password or encryption key is "testimony." A police officer cannot force or threaten you into giving up your password or unlocking your electronic devices."
https://www.eff.org/issues/know-your-rights#17
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
In the event of a felony, yes you will either forfeit the password code, or be forced to open the document/video yourself, just prior to seizure by the police.
Wrong..."The Fifth Amendment protects you from being forced to give the government self-incriminating testimony. Courts have generally accepted that telling the government a password or encryption key is "testimony." A police officer cannot force or threaten you into giving up your password or unlocking your electronic devices."
https://www.eff.org/issues/know-your-rights#17
Originally Posted by talest
michaelluscher said:
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
In the event of a felony, yes you will either forfeit the password code, or be forced to open the document/video yourself, just prior to seizure by the police.
Wrong..."The Fifth Amendment protects you from being forced to give the government self-incriminating testimony. Courts have generally accepted that telling the government a password or encryption key is "testimony." A police officer cannot force or threaten you into giving up your password or unlocking your electronic devices."
https://www.eff.org/issues/know-your-rights#17
This is one issue with dash cams which some user's aren't aware of.
Spoliation of evidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence
http://www.jlolaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/legaleasespring2011.pdf
The second issue is states which require two-party consent for audio recordings (Approx 11 states). Many dash cams also capture audio so having the feature active while the vehicle is parked say at the dealership service dept is probably illegal.
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The police can insist that you preserve the data until they get a warrant.
True they can tell you to preserve the video but in most cases they are going to need warrant for the seizure and they will most certainly need a warrant to view any footage. I think it goes without saying that if you believe you may be guilty of a crime, never answer questions (like "what is your password") or consent to a search.
Fwiw, I encrypt my phone data and my dash cam video (yes, they now make dash cams with encryption) and the 5thAm protects you against self incrimination, so you are not required to provide your password or encryption key.
In the event of a felony, yes you will either forfeit the password code, or be forced to open the document/video yourself, just prior to seizure by the police.
Wrong..."The Fifth Amendment protects you from being forced to give the government self-incriminating testimony. Courts have generally accepted that telling the government a password or encryption key is "testimony." A police officer cannot force or threaten you into giving up your password or unlocking your electronic devices."
https://www.eff.org/issues/know-your-rights#17
This is one issue with dash cams which some user's aren't aware of.
Spoliation of evidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoliation_of_evidence
http://www.jlolaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/legaleasespring2011.pdf
The second issue is states which require two-party consent for audio recordings (Approx 11 states). Many dash cams also capture audio so having the feature active while the vehicle is parked say at the dealership service dept is probably illegal.
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