[cut-open] AC Delco PF-47E (Sludge in Center)

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OilNerd

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This filter, an AC Delco PF-47E, is off of my Dad's 2003 Chevy Venture. He is losing coolant, and we suspect an intake manifold gasket is shot. (I will be sending a sample to the lab for confirmation of coolant in the oil.)

There's minimal sludge in the can and pleats (that's why I didn't bother to take photos of them), but at the bottom of the e-Core cage, there was a mass of sludge, near the leaf spring.

I was a little surprised to see sludge in the center cage. Shouldn't the pleats and the filter can be the home for sludge?

I did the best I could with my camera's lousy macro and auto-focus.

OilNerdLicensePlateSmall.jpg



Here's the view from the top:

2zgb6ew.jpg


Here's the view from the bottom:

293f79v.jpg
 
My guess would be the leaf spring isn't fully sealed against the filter elements and the plastic cage, allowing stuff (your sludge) to seep past it before the bypass valve actuates. That would probably explain everything about the circumstances you've explained.
 
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Did you check for any holes in the media? E-Cores are most hated because of this.


I did. All pleats were normal, with a few wavy pleats, no holes through the media.

I stopped using e-cores because of the 'square hole' issue, posted by others, when coolant or moisture weakens the media. My Buick has the same, faulty nylon intake manifold gasket design, so it was a real concern for me. My Dad, on the other hand, would say "E-what"?

To the e-core's credit, the media didn't blow out.
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Wow, that is caked up. I would be recommending very short OCI's to you dad. That not good.


He's a 3,000 mile guy. We think it's more coolant intrusion than his OCI. We'll find out for sure, after the UOA.

This run was approx. 5,000 miles, though, on cheap (but API certified) dino, but the filter was likely on for 8,000 miles. He admittedly hates changing the filter on his Venture because of the splash guard.
 
I wonder if that is not really sludge leaking through filter but because the filter doesn't pass water real good it could be the coolant that is in filter paper actually being emulsified and mixing with some oil causing that goo to form on the filter paper. I think the problem may not be filter but the mixing of coolant and oil. I would be looking in to getting a set Fel Pro "T" intake gaskets on this van before bad things happen. I have seen filters blown up in cold weather because of coolant sepping in oil causing no flow through filter and bypass can't handle the flow and causing filter to leak badly. I think the filter held up well givin that it is heavy with contamination and the presure drop is probably very high. I also think it did it's job givin the problem and even the E core held it together ok.
 
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If the coolant is leaking into the oil, and I suspect it is, I wonder how long this engine has before there the bearings are toast.
My daughter has a Monte Carlo with the 3.1 that had a severe coolant leak into the oil, via the intake manifold gaskets. I fixed the gaskets and two years later the head gaskets went out. With all the other problems that it had, I was happy to see the junk man tow the thing away.
 
We had a venture in the shop the other day that was getting coolant into the oil and found the oil cooler to be defective. May want to check it out before you get into the mess with the intake. The one we worked on did'nt have any water running through the intake manifold anyway.
 
Thanks for the pics! It doesn't look like the spring didn't seat properly, but this is just based upon the indentation in the media at the top. I don't know much about coolant in the oil, but I could believe the emulsification idea a prior poster had.

One important question -- is that really your license plate? If so, awesome!
 
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Originally Posted By: ABerns
One important question -- is that really your license plate? If so, awesome!


No, I refuse to pay this state any more than I have to. In addition to the initial cost, there's an annual custom plate fee, which I refuse to pay. So, I only get to cruise in style on BITOG!
 
Wow, that looks nasty but thanks for sharing.


Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Did you check for any holes in the media? E-Cores are most hated because of this.


And I think this may be as much of an over-exaggeration as the Fram EG thing. Clearly this isn't a death trap of a filter if it has survived 2 OCIs and been treated to the gooey mess seen in the pics! The ACDelco versions of the E-Core seem to have plenty of media in them and not as prone to the the blowout issue.


I don't think it looks like the spring leaked either, just based on the end caps as well.

It looks like these have the cooler on the filter mount. If that is the culprit I could see the coolant leaking some when the engine is off and the sludge sitting in the bottom of the center tube. How to check if it is leaking I don't know.
 
Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Thanks for the tip, how do you determine a defective oil cooler? Isn't it buried inside the radiator?


The venture we worked on had the cooler sandwiched between the block and the oil filter. We just bypassed it and the water stopped making its way into the crankcase so we replaced it and no more problems. It should be what the filter actually threads onto with a hose coming in and one coming out of it.
 
In this case, quite frankly I'd be more concerned about the cause of the sludge than the function of this ACD ecore. One positive for this application is there is no nitrile combo valve, because the bypass/relief valve is built into the engine. Imo, much of the blown out media seen in ecores here, is the malfunction of the bypass portion of the nitrile combo valve. Just as a nitrile adbv has a limited durability life, so would the bypass function too.

LIM gaskets sounds like a good place to start. Have to say though, easy to understand imo why many GM owners prefer the classic construction style filters.

Thanks for the pics.
 
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