Joe, without getting political, just looking at the tax regimes, if I recall correctly, isn't VAT added at each step of the process? In Canada, at least, with our GST, if I'm a blender and buy base stock and additive packages, I pay 5% GST on those. Then, I take my finished oil and sell it to a distributor, and charge 5% GST on that. However, the original GST I paid is credited back to me before I calculate what to submit based on my sales of finished oil. In this way, the tax doesn't pile up upon a tax. The province does things differently with its sales tax, but it accomplishes something similar. If I buy something for resale, I don't pay PST on it. I collect the PST when I sell it to the end user, and submit that.
Crude Oil at Historic Lows and 5W30 is High Priced
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Joe, without getting political, just looking at the tax regimes, if I recall correctly, isn't VAT added at each step of the process? In Canada, at least, with our GST, if I'm a blender and buy base stock and additive packages, I pay 5% GST on those. Then, I take my finished oil and sell it to a distributor, and charge 5% GST on that. However, the original GST I paid is credited back to me before I calculate what to submit based on my sales of finished oil. In this way, the tax doesn't pile up upon a tax. The province does things differently with its sales tax, but it accomplishes something similar. If I buy something for resale, I don't pay PST on it. I collect the PST when I sell it to the end user, and submit that.
Yes our VAT is the same as your GST albeit a lot higher. It's a pay and reclaim system. The final user is the one that pays the 'finally accrued' 20% rate.
Joe, without getting political, just looking at the tax regimes, if I recall correctly, isn't VAT added at each step of the process? In Canada, at least, with our GST, if I'm a blender and buy base stock and additive packages, I pay 5% GST on those. Then, I take my finished oil and sell it to a distributor, and charge 5% GST on that. However, the original GST I paid is credited back to me before I calculate what to submit based on my sales of finished oil. In this way, the tax doesn't pile up upon a tax. The province does things differently with its sales tax, but it accomplishes something similar. If I buy something for resale, I don't pay PST on it. I collect the PST when I sell it to the end user, and submit that.
Yes our VAT is the same as your GST albeit a lot higher. It's a pay and reclaim system. The final user is the one that pays the 'finally accrued' 20% rate.
the main benefit for the state with VAT or GST is that they can keep excellent track of what is going where. It'sa lot harder to dodge income taxes (or taxes on profit) with this system in place.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
the main benefit for the state with VAT or GST is that they can keep excellent track of what is going where. It'sa lot harder to dodge income taxes (or taxes on profit) with this system in place.
Philosophically, I like a consumption tax system better - it puts the taxpayer in control of what they are paying...and there are no complex forms or accounting for the average consumer/taxpayer.
However, not one country that has added a VAT has rolled back their income tax, so I am not a fan of its implementation here...it would only lead to higher prices on goods...while continuing the byzantine, inconsistent, influence-prone and expensive way that our IRS and Federal system operate now...
There is a regressive nature to the VAT/GST as well. When all goods/products/services are more expensive, that impacts the low income group more than the high income group. Unless you define "necessities" and exclude them from VAT/GST.
The problem there, of course, is who determines this exclusion...
the main benefit for the state with VAT or GST is that they can keep excellent track of what is going where. It'sa lot harder to dodge income taxes (or taxes on profit) with this system in place.
Philosophically, I like a consumption tax system better - it puts the taxpayer in control of what they are paying...and there are no complex forms or accounting for the average consumer/taxpayer.
However, not one country that has added a VAT has rolled back their income tax, so I am not a fan of its implementation here...it would only lead to higher prices on goods...while continuing the byzantine, inconsistent, influence-prone and expensive way that our IRS and Federal system operate now...
There is a regressive nature to the VAT/GST as well. When all goods/products/services are more expensive, that impacts the low income group more than the high income group. Unless you define "necessities" and exclude them from VAT/GST.
The problem there, of course, is who determines this exclusion...
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Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Yes our VAT is the same as your GST albeit a lot higher. It's a pay and reclaim system. The final user is the one that pays the 'finally accrued' 20% rate.
Thanks for the info, Joe. How it worked in your jurisdiction wasn't exactly clear the way the media has reported it for years here.
Yes our VAT is the same as your GST albeit a lot higher. It's a pay and reclaim system. The final user is the one that pays the 'finally accrued' 20% rate.
Thanks for the info, Joe. How it worked in your jurisdiction wasn't exactly clear the way the media has reported it for years here.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
the main benefit for the state with VAT or GST is that they can keep excellent track of what is going where. It'sa lot harder to dodge income taxes (or taxes on profit) with this system in place.
Philosophically, I like a consumption tax system better - it puts the taxpayer in control of what they are paying...and there are no complex forms or accounting for the average consumer/taxpayer.
However, not one country that has added a VAT has rolled back their income tax, so I am not a fan of its implementation here...it would only lead to higher prices on goods...while continuing the byzantine, inconsistent, influence-prone and expensive way that our IRS and Federal system operate now...
There is a regressive nature to the VAT/GST as well. When all goods/products/services are more expensive, that impacts the low income group more than the high income group. Unless you define "necessities" and exclude them from VAT/GST.
The problem there, of course, is who determines this exclusion...
there's different levels of VAT here.
foods (fresh or take out), flowers 6%
drinks and meals in restaurants 12%
everything else 21%
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
the main benefit for the state with VAT or GST is that they can keep excellent track of what is going where. It'sa lot harder to dodge income taxes (or taxes on profit) with this system in place.
Philosophically, I like a consumption tax system better - it puts the taxpayer in control of what they are paying...and there are no complex forms or accounting for the average consumer/taxpayer.
However, not one country that has added a VAT has rolled back their income tax, so I am not a fan of its implementation here...it would only lead to higher prices on goods...while continuing the byzantine, inconsistent, influence-prone and expensive way that our IRS and Federal system operate now...
There is a regressive nature to the VAT/GST as well. When all goods/products/services are more expensive, that impacts the low income group more than the high income group. Unless you define "necessities" and exclude them from VAT/GST.
The problem there, of course, is who determines this exclusion...
there's different levels of VAT here.
foods (fresh or take out), flowers 6%
drinks and meals in restaurants 12%
everything else 21%
Much of the oils out there today came from higher price crudes I expect. With it expected to go up by the end of the year I expect most finished oil products to drop very little in the meantime other than gas or diesel.
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