Crown moulding help

[JHZR2]

Put up some crown moulding, and am having some issues with the scarf joints.

The issue is that it's an old house, the walls aren't straight, and so it is tough to hang. But the issue I'm having is hiding the scarf joints because of this. The moulding was put up so they are straight, and they were glued together. But after painting them, given the lighting setup in our room, they are quite noticeable.

So how do we get them totally flat so light angles don't create shadows? Caulk? Lots of sanding? Just give up?

That last pic isn't as bad in real life as it looks from the angle I took it.

So how do we make the joints not noticeable?

Thanks!

 

[Papa Bear]

Our old house has moulding very similar to yours and the joints look the same as yours..... We just don't look up.

The door frames in our past house was identical to yours as well. Fir, I believe. Here is a peek at them

 

[Warstud]

I think the only thing you can do short of taking it down and realigning it is to shave down the high spots and fill in the low spots at the seam to make it less noticable.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Our old house has moulding very similar to yours and the joints look the same as yours..... We just don't look up.

The door frames in our past house was identical to yours as well. Fir, I believe. Here is a peek at them



That's one approach!

The grain on our wood is really odd. I have one piece that is cut through, and it is odd - like a network of very small holes parallel to the grain. Kind of like celery!

 

[doitmyself]

I won't pass judgment on others work as I know it is an art that craftsmen acquire over many years of experience.

As a diyer, I am about the slowest trades person in the world, whether its auto work or finish carpentry. But, my work is usually excellent (emphasis on usually).

On tough finish joints like yours, I might spend a half hour or more doing "dry" fits before doing the final install.

-Shims are a carpenters friend, and it looks like you needed some under the left piece.
-Sandpaper is great and I would use it and/or a plane on the backside of the molding to make "adjustments" to allow better fit....probably on the right piece, as it sticks out and up too much.
- Finally, sandable wood filler, caulk, etc. to hide your imperfections, especially on something that's painted.

An old time carpenter once taught me that a good carpenter doesn't do everything perfect, he just knows how to make it look perfect (hide his mistakes).

To fix your joint now would take some very intricate "cut and fill".......sanding, shaping, and filling to make the joint invisible.

Those "holes" in the wood sound like ring porous wood such as oak and ash.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Warstud
I think the only thing you can do short of taking it down and realigning it is to shave down the high spots and fill in the low spots at the seam to make it less noticable.


What's the best way to do it? Just coarse to finer sandpaper? What would I use to fill? Wood putty or something else?

Thanks!

 

[Warstud]

If you have a dremel tool that would work great if not maybe a utility knife or file would work. Fill the low spots with wood putty.

 

[doitmyself]

I would use a small, very sharp wood chisel on the square parts of the molding and shave it down to better match the left side. A razor knife would also be used to alter the "lines" deeper. I would use sandpaper wrapped on a small flat stick (popsicle stick) to sand the rounded part of the right moulding down to the left side.

An additional problem seems that the horizontal lines don't match. I think you will have to be careful to not make this problem worse by rounding the edges.

Since it is already painted, any spackle product would work. Water putty and wood fillers might get too hard to work. Caulk cannot be sanded.

There's also a bunch of youtube videos on molding install such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik3wbE44WFQ

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
I won't pass judgment on others work as I know it is an art that craftsmen acquire over many years of experience.

As a diyer, I am about the slowest trades person in the world, whether its auto work or finish carpentry. But, my work is usually excellent (emphasis on usually).

On tough finish joints like yours, I might spend a half hour or more doing "dry" fits before doing the final install.

-Shims are a carpenters friend, and it looks like you needed some under the left piece.
-Sandpaper is great and I would use it and/or a plane on the backside of the molding to make "adjustments" to allow better fit....probably on the right piece, as it sticks out and up too much.
- Finally, sandable wood filler, caulk, etc. to hide your imperfections, especially on something that's painted.

An old time carpenter once taught me that a good carpenter doesn't do everything perfect, he just knows how to make it look perfect (hide his mistakes).

To fix your joint now would take some very intricate "cut and fill".......sanding, shaping, and filling to make the joint invisible.

Those "holes" in the wood sound like ring porous wood such as oak and ash.

The rest of the joints are pretty flat an straight. Just this one is trouble. In the end, it is the easiest pieces to R&R if need be.

Can you recommend products to smooth? Do you think it should be a caulk, filler or something else?

That wood that you are showing looks similar. I was told chestnut in the past (does it have a similar porous ring structure?), but someone else told me that it is oak.

 

[JHZR2]

^^ Nevermind, you answered before I was done typing!

 

[doitmyself]

American Chestnut is ring porous also:

If you use spackle, don't use the fluffy, "light" kind. And, follow the basic prep principle that stuff doesn't stick to shiny surfaces (gloss paint).

 

[Boogerhead]

are you planning to doctor what you have, or are you willing to take part of the molding down for the repair? Lot of intricate work to fill and sand down a profile like that. You'd need to feather it to the low side to help hide your repair. If you take the lower side down and reinstall, just progressively shimthe back side of the molding to bring the two planes closer to alignment. Also, next time use a miter rather than a butt joint. Miter will survive longitudinal expansion and contraction better than a caulked butt joint.
Eric

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
American Chestnut is ring porous also:

If you use spackle, don't use the fluffy, "light" kind. And, follow the basic prep principle that stuff doesn't stick to shiny surfaces (gloss paint).


That's it, that's the grain!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Boogerhead
are you planning to doctor what you have, or are you willing to take part of the molding down for the repair? Lot of intricate work to fill and sand down a profile like that. You'd need to feather it to the low side to help hide your repair. If you take the lower side down and reinstall, just progressively shimthe back side of the molding to bring the two planes closer to alignment. Also, next time use a miter rather than a butt joint. Miter will survive longitudinal expansion and contraction better than a caulked butt joint.
Eric



Ugggh, I dont know. These joints were cut at an angle, they arent just 90 degree cuts butted together. They overlap.

I think Im going to give it a try, and these are probably the two easiest to replace, so the worst that can happen is that I screw it up and we have to replace them. Best case, it hides the look and all is well.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Do it right. Take the pieces off the wall, and then rehang them correctly. No amount of sanding or putty will ever make that joint look right.

It will take much less time to take it down and do it right then it will to try to smooth it out.

 

[NHHEMI]

It is hard for me to see with my vision issues now but it looks like you just butted the mouldings, end to end, in those shots? Is that correct? If so you will never get it to look right. You don't butt mouldings together like that.

The correct way is to use a 22.5 dgree angle cut on a miter box/chop saw( might have to be adjusted a degree or two if the wall is wavy ). Take your time to think about the direction people will be looking at the joint most often and have the over cut go in the direction of the site line. Hope that was clear? Hard to explain.

You also always want to dry fit and test until it all fits right before nailing it up. Once it all fits properly nail it up and lightly sand if needed to final blend it. Then touch up the paint.

When I did this kind of work with my brother we seldom needed to do more than just cut it to fit and the line vanished once the final paint coat went up( primed before install and finish painted after ). Occassionally on an old house we would need a little caulking on the wall seam but never on the mouldings face.

NOTE - in the corners we always coped the joints vs cutting 45 angles and then touching up with caulking if needed( big fancy mouldings are difficult to cope ). Coping means one moulding runs into the corner and butts flat to the wall. The other one has an angle back-cut on the end of the moulding and then the details of the moulding are followed with a coping saw. This allows the moulding to slide along and lay over the other piece. Best method for corner fittment.

 

[JHZR2]

They are 22 degree scarf joints, not butt. The angles I took the pictures look worse than the actual situation.

The crookedness of the actual wall I think threw stuff off, as the rest of the joints came out well. The coping approach was also used in this case, worked well!

 

[hattaresguy]

How big is the room? A 16ft piece won't make it?

The joint in the picture looks miss aligned, I'd take it down and redo it.

OTOH putty and paint make it what it ain't...

 

[tom slick]

I'd feather it with wood filler (similar to bondo) the same way drywall and automotive bodywork is blended/floated.

 

[mechtech2]

I do this for a living now.
A good carpenter makes things easy.
Sanding is necessary - a little or a lot. And it requires some artistry.
Those look like simple butt joints. A slant cut is what should be used [overlapping].

Good old BONDO can be your friend, also.

Notice how 'close enough' carpentry is never good enough later on?