Counterfeit Watches

[NibbanaBanana]

Looking at some decent mechanical watches from Seiko, Bulova, Timex, Hamilton. Not made in the prc. Priced under $1000.

You can purchase them directly on the manufacturer's website, from an "authorized dealer" (like Teddy Baldassarre), or from numerous ebay sellers.
The authorized dealers are selling for over $100 less than the manufacturer and the ebay sellers are hundreds less. How can they do this?

According to the internet, watches are one of the most counterfeited items.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Looking at some decent mechanical watches from Seiko, Bulova, Timex, Hamilton. Not made in the prc. Priced under $1000.

You can purchase them directly on the manufacturer's website, from an "authorized dealer" (like Teddy Baldassarre), or from numerous ebay sellers.
The authorized dealers are selling for over $100 less than the manufacturer and the ebay sellers are hundreds less. How can they do this?

According to the internet, watches are one of the most counterfeited items.

I don't know much about watches - but you likely answered your own question.

Having said that - back in the day you could get gray market electronics for much cheaper than buying them from in channel. Gray market is simply a legit product that is sold cheaper elsewhere in the world, which is then imported by a third party. However back then you knew who the legit importers where - and they were not on ebay.

 

[KrisZ]

Most of the brands you named have manufacturing in PRC, you will need to research specific models to make sure they are not made in China, and even then, they probably contain plenty of parts made in china, like bracelets and cases. Even Rolex has parts made in China, it cannot really be escaped.

As mentioned, ebay is mostly gray market watches, it doesn't mean they are counterfeit though. Is there a chance you can get one? Sure, although I would imagine these wouldn't be good fakes, unlike the luxury fake like Rolex, Tudor etc.
They should be easier to identify.

Here is a good example of a fake Seiko, the quality difference is quite obvious.

 

[AZjeff]

Having said that - back in the day you could get gray market electronics for much cheaper than buying them from in channel. Gray market is simply a legit product that is sold cheaper elsewhere in the world,

Back in the day I had a photography store and sold cameras and the New York camera stores were a thing with the cheap gray prices. People would come in with a broken camera to find out that it had no US warranty. Oops.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Looking at some decent mechanical watches from Seiko, Bulova, Timex, Hamilton. Not made in the prc. Priced under $1000.

You can purchase them directly on the manufacturer's website, from an "authorized dealer" (like Teddy Baldassarre), or from numerous ebay sellers.
The authorized dealers are selling for over $100 less than the manufacturer and the ebay sellers are hundreds less. How can they do this?

According to the internet, watches are one of the most counterfeited items.

I would rather buy a genuine but older piece and have it refurbished from the factory service center

 

[4strokes]

Many manufacturers are quite happy with the grey market existing, as it creates a cheaper price point for their products. Someone who isn't willing to spend $ 1000 might be happy to spend $ 750 for the same product on the grey market.

 

[Hermann]

Both Gray Market Swiss ETA movements I have owned failed while in warranty. Thankfully my double warranty at B of A gave me a refund when the bank charged back the amount to Ashford and Jomashop after I got pushback from Jomashop.

 

[wavinwayne]

I live near the "Unclaimed Baggage" store where airlines' lost luggage ends up. They always have a bunch of >$1K watches, which makes me wonder how they distinguish genuine from fakes.

 

[wings&wheels]

I live near the "Unclaimed Baggage" store where airlines' lost luggage ends up. They always have a bunch of >$1K watches, which makes me wonder how they distinguish genuine from fakes.

At one point, I know the company that did this for some airlines validated them, most of the manufacturers provide the necessary references. Had an Uncle who was involved in investigating counterfeits, actually the attempted insurance claim of a large shipment of counterfeits. Long story short, I had a picture of him driving over and crushing a lot of knock-off Rolexes while some Customs folks looked on.... Fascinating corner of the import world.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Back in the day I had a photography store and sold cameras and the New York camera stores were a thing with the cheap gray prices. People would come in with a broken camera to find out that it had no US warranty. Oops.

I was one of those people buying gray market camera stuff! Back when I was under the illusion I had some artistic talent.

The big camera stores made it perfectly clear what warranty you were getting. I think Adorama offered 90 days on gray market - they likely covered it themselves / self insured. The USA stuff was 1 year at least. But the product was 1/2 price and literally identical. Anyone buying from the big NYC shops simply didn't read or chose to ignore it.

I decided to sell all my stuff right at the end of film. Sold it as used on ebay and got almost as much as I paid for it all to begin with - some I had bought used, some gray market.

 

[GMFan]

On our wedding day my bride gifted me a manual wind Hamilton field watch with an engraving on the back. It’s on my wrist every day. I swapped out the metal bracelet for a polyester band for more comfortable wear. I wear it on a 5 yrs so far and not a single problem. It’s a no nonsense no frills timepiece and I love it. My 3 y.o. daughter likes hearing the ticking when I put it up to her ear and it makes her smile. One day I’ll hand it down to one of my daughters.

That being said it probably has some part in it from the PRC but so does the phone I’m replying to this message on. It’s a world economy and stuff is made all over the place.

 

[Passport1]

I have a bunch of watches mostly inherited from my brother. Knowing where he bought them and how much he paid I'm confident they are genuine. If I purchase a Japanese Seiko from Amazon that comes in a box marked Denso I'm suspicious.

 

[Opelman]

So you mean the $20.00 Rolex I bought in Tijuana is fake? Actually I went specifically to get a fake Rolex, the back and forth with the seller proclaiming it real was hysterical.

 

[PandaBear]

So you mean the $20.00 Rolex I bought in Tijuana is fake? Actually I went specifically to get a fake Rolex, the back and forth with the seller proclaiming it real was hysterical.

It could be stolen if it is genuine too.

 

[charbaby]

does rolex get any of their parts from china?

 

[dubber09]

@NibbanaBanana
I'd suggest you to figure out how long you want that watch to work for you. Warranty may be of great value if you're thinking of long term.
I'll give you an example. I wanted a good quality rifle scope that would serve me at least next 10 years. Many manufacturers make scope in the category I wanted but I went with Vortex Strike Eagle one as the scope is very comparable to competition and company provides unconditional lifetime warranty that was proven to be easiest to claim.

 

[CKN]

Photo taken last year on a cruise with a stop in Kusadasi, Turkey at a Turkish Bazar.
It was $200.00 for a fake Rolex. They are actually quality time pieces-for a fake. No-I didn't buy one! Had a nice tour of the site of the first Olympic Games as well at the Port Stop.

 

[fdcg27]

Having said that - back in the day you could get gray market electronics for much cheaper than buying them from in channel. Gray market is simply a legit product that is sold cheaper elsewhere in the world, which is then imported by a third party. However back then you knew who the legit importers where - and they were not on ebay.

At the time, you could also buy higher end Euro cars grey market at great savings and you could get powertrain combinations not offered in the US.
Want a stick W123 230TE? Easy, find a grey market one. I did and drove one that was on a legit OH title. Moved too slowly and it was gone for around four grand. Since the powertrain was offered in the US W201 it got a pass through on emissions as long as all US spec emissions gear was installed.
Some real deals on MBs, BMWs and Volvos until MBNA lobbied for a bill to shut this channel down.

 

[KrisZ]

does rolex get any of their parts from china?

I guess I jumped the gun a bit on that one. I tried searching for it, nothing conclusive came up, as in an article or some other leak, just talk on various forums and claims made by some Chinese suppliers. I wouldn't be surprised if they did, but there is nothing officially available that would confirm this claim. I guess since they're owned by a trust and are not a publically traded company, it probably cannot be confirmed.

 

[nickaluch]

Back in my younger years when I was a fashion icon I would buy only knockoffs on Canal Street NYC for practically nothing nobody knew but me. Shoes I actually bought the real thing