Could changing oil too often damage the engine?

[RDY4WAR]

There's some obscure evidence to suggest that too frequent of oil changes increases wear due to chemical cleaning or "stripping" of anti-wear films by fresh detergents. The theory is that wear increases the first few hundred miles after an oil change as old anti-wear films are neutralized, stripped, and replaced, with wear leveling off to a normal rate afterward. The more frequently the oil is changed, the more often this cycle occurs.

Mind you, this was only from one publication, I believe. I don't know of any further research to validate or refute the theory. I don't have a link to the information on hand though I know it's been posted on here a few times before.

Changing every 7,500 miles / kms won't be too frequent with a common API synthetic oil. No big deal there. Some people are still hooked on the 3,000 miles or 3 months lie.

Regardless, I prefer getting the maximum life out of my oil for multiple reasons. Firstly, I think oil/petroleum is valuable and shouldn't be a wasted resource. Why use 7.5 gallons of oil a year, changing it every 3,000 miles, when I could use just 1.5 gallons changed once a year for about the same or lower price and no change or better results in UOAs. Secondly, the less frequently I have to crawl under the car with my bad back, the better. Thirdly, there's more evidence to suggest using good quality oils, (ie: not restricted API oils) at longer intervals of ~15k miles, results in lower long-term wear rates over the life of an engine. (which is also posted on here somewhere)

I guess I view oil like "If it's not broken, don't fix it." If the oil hasn't used up its service life, why change it?

 

[kschachn]

There's some obscure evidence to suggest that too frequent of oil changes increases wear due to chemical cleaning or "stripping" of anti-wear films by fresh detergents. The theory is that wear increases the first few hundred miles after an oil change as old anti-wear films are neutralized, stripped, and replaced, with wear leveling off to a normal rate afterward. The more frequently the oil is changed, the more often this cycle occurs.

Mind you, this was only from one publication, I believe. I don't know of any further research to validate or refute the theory. I don't have a link to the information on hand though I know it's been posted on here a few times before.

Regardless, I prefer getting the maximum life out of my oil for multiple reasons. Firstly, I think oil/petroleum is a valuable and shouldn't be a wasted resource. Why use 7.5 gallons of oil a year, changing it every 3,000 miles, when I could use just 1.5 gallons changed once a year for about the same or lower price and no change or better results in UOAs. Secondly, the less frequently I have to crawl under the car with my bad back, the better. Thirdly, there's more evidence to suggest using good quality oils, at longer intervals of ~15k miles, results in lower long-term wear rates over the life of an engine. (which is also posted on here somewhere)

I guess I view oil like "If it's not broken, don't fix it." If the oil hasn't used up its service life, why change it?

Yes one paper that under moderate scrutiny has many dubious assumptions.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Yes one paper that under moderate scrutiny has many dubious assumptions.

It's something I would love to see more research on though. We know that a balance between anti-wear (specifically ZDDP) and detergents is needed for best wear protection. With ZDDP being an acidic ester (at least the type used for most engine oils) and detergents being acid neutralizers, it's easy to see why they hate each other. The anti-wear films deposited by ZDDP have also shown to be acidic. Therefore, from purely a chemistry perspective, it seems logical that a sudden resurgence of strong detergents from an oil change could neutralize and reduce the effectiveness of the anti-wear films, potentially faster than the new anti-wear additives could react. Just saying from a chemistry perspective, it seems feasible. Whether it actually occurs is unsubstantiated. My take is that it's a "theory" and nothing more at this time, but fun to ponder about.

 

[someonesomewhere]

No, it doesn't. It may work on some, even many, fuel-injected engines, but far from all. Example: doesn't work on my Camry.

Doesn't work on our 08 Accent, either. It fires right up, straight to full throttle. Surprised and irked me when I accidentally discovered that little gem. Lol

 

[SC Maintenance]

The Xterra in my signature has 392K miles, has been owned since new by me, the OCI is 3 to 4K, and has always been, I never pre fill the filter or spin the engine. I even use conventional or semi synthetic oil - GASP

No oil related issues so far. I drove it yesterday. If it dies today I will let you know.

 

[ARB1977]

I’m every six months 5000-6500 oci on my Tacoma. The Honda I follow the olm to 15% depending on usage it sees 4500-6500 oci.

 

[Shel_B]

It's something I would love to see more research on though. We know that a balance between anti-wear (specifically ZDDP) and detergents is needed for best wear protection. With ZDDP being an acidic ester (at least the type used for most engine oils) and detergents being acid neutralizers, it's easy to see why they hate each other. The anti-wear films deposited by ZDDP have also shown to be acidic. Therefore, from purely a chemistry perspective, it seems logical that a sudden resurgence of strong detergents from an oil change could neutralize and reduce the effectiveness of the anti-wear films, potentially faster than the new anti-wear additives could react. Just saying from a chemistry perspective, it seems feasible. Whether it actually occurs is unsubstantiated. My take is that it's a "theory" and nothing more at this time, but fun to ponder about.

This has been discussed here previously. I thought that was established fact.

 

[nomas]

As an aside ... I had a vehicle with the oil filter mounted at a steep angle . While I was unable to prefill the filter , I could pour a little oil in and rotate it to allow the oil to saturate the media . I'm nowhere near as obsessive as most folks here but prefilling a filter is my little quirk .

 

[Shel_B]

As an aside ... I had a vehicle with the oil filter mounted at a steep angle . While I was unable to prefill the filter , I could pour a little oil in and rotate it to allow the oil to saturate the media . I'm nowhere near as obsessive as most folks here but prefilling a filter is my little quirk .

I've done that as well. Had a couple of Mazdas with horizontal filters and was able to add quite a bit of oil before any dripping during the installation of the filter would take place.

 

[SC Maintenance]

This has been discussed here previously. I thought that was established fact.

Even if its true - as mentioned its mostly a hypothesis - its one of many variables

Some of the recent Lake Speed videos his testing data on the new oils shows that the increase in detergents seem to help slow wear? Doesn't this to some degree contradict the film / detergent theory?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Even if its true - as mentioned its mostly a hypothesis - its one of many variables

Some of the recent Lake Speed videos his testing data on the new oils shows that the increase in detergents seem to help slow wear? Doesn't this to some degree contradict the film / detergent theory?

There's more than 1 type of wear. The two most common in engines is abrasive wear and corrosive wear. The anti-wear additives reduce abrasive wear. The detergents prevent corrosive wear, often in direct odds with the anti-wear additives. You also have different kinds of detergents among the same Ca and Mg base. Some will neutralize weaker acids better than stronger acids and vice versa. Depending on how you formulate those, you can change up how the wear is controlled. If the detergent package is weak against stronger acids, say hydrochloric acid, then corrosive wear could still occur even when the oil shows a bit of TBN left. This is where the discrepency of the two types of TBN testing come into play.

 

[nomas]

The Xterra in my signature has 392K miles, has been owned since new by me, the OCI is 3 to 4K, and has always been, I never pre fill the filter or spin the engine. I even use conventional or semi synthetic oil - GASP

No oil related issues so far. I drove it yesterday. If it dies today I will let you know.

In other words , what you are doing is working for you and why change now , right . Bravo , sir .

 

[Petr]

It's something I would love to see more research on though. Therefore, from purely a chemistry perspective, it seems logical that a sudden resurgence of strong detergents from an oil change could neutralize and reduce the effectiveness of the anti-wear films, potentially faster than the new anti-wear additives could react. Just saying from a chemistry perspective, it seems feasible. Whether it actually occurs is unsubstantiated. My take is that it's a "theory" and nothing more at this time, but fun to ponder about.

While I was sometimes able to hear subtle acoustic difference between different oils, I have never heard any acoustic difference when changing oil for the same one. I have used various 0w-30 ACEA A3 oil in my car always trying to use a good oil from a good brand.
After many oil changes I have found that the oils that sounded slightly harscher have had zero boron and also zero molybden in their VOA.
Once I have heard subtle difference between old Total 0W-30 and "a same" Total 0W-30. Comparing the jugs I have found out that new one is missing one of the approvals. There was a significant drop in purchasing price as well and guess what - the old one was full synthetic (in German sense, i.e. a lot of PAO in MSDS), while the new one was not.

There was one case when the acoustic difference was truly extreme - going from Mobil1 ESP 5w-30 to Ravenol VST 5w-40. In this case the initial sound was horrible for the first 200 km. I suspect that this was the case when new chemistry destroyed the old antiwear tribofilm before a new layer was established. After approx 2000 km the sound was smooth as never before, and 7 oil exchanges later (always with Ravenol VST) the sound before and after the oil change remains the same.
Something similar but definitely not that extreme was audible when going from the Total 0w-30 to Ravenol SSO 0w-30. Going from Ravenol SSO to Ravenol SSO,or going from Ravenol SSO to Honda Genuine 0w-20 there was no audible change.

TLDR: I believe it is not just a theory and sometimes it really might happen. However, going from one quality (used) oil to the same new oil, the transition from old to new oil is likely to be smooth.

 

[wpod]

It's something I would love to see more research on though. We know that a balance between anti-wear (specifically ZDDP) and detergents is needed for best wear protection. With ZDDP being an acidic ester (at least the type used for most engine oils) and detergents being acid neutralizers, it's easy to see why they hate each other. The anti-wear films deposited by ZDDP have also shown to be acidic. Therefore, from purely a chemistry perspective, it seems logical that a sudden resurgence of strong detergents from an oil change could neutralize and reduce the effectiveness of the anti-wear films, potentially faster than the new anti-wear additives could react. Just saying from a chemistry perspective, it seems feasible. Whether it actually occurs is unsubstantiated. My take is that it's a "theory" and nothing more at this time, but fun to ponder about.

May be, may be not. I worked at a forklift dealership and we did lots of oil changes on an assortment of the clients vehicles some did monthly oil changes which was foolish in my opinion but that is what they wanted and some went too long on the maintenance but that is what they wanted . The engines in both cases outlasted the vehicles .

 

[RDY4WAR]

I'm a firm believer that engine noise has little to no relevance to wear. The polymers used as VIIs in engine oils have natural sound and vibration dampening properties, some more so than others. The base oils have varying sound dampening properties. This can affect how one oil will make an engine "noisy" compared to another. It doesn't mean anything has suddenly changed. The noise is always there. It's why Lucas Oil Stabilizer, which is nothing but a viscous polymer with no additives in it, will quiet a noisy engine because you're essentially coating your engine with sound deadening material. The noise is still there, any faulty part is still eating itself, you just can't hear it now. If you can't hear it, it doesn't exist.... right?

 

[OilUzer]

One can argue that the "publication" could have been written by a lazy person, or an environmentalist, or a true tribofilm nurd.

 

[Hermann]

First of all before I start this I want to apologize if I sound dumb, my english is not very good.

Having said that, I just wanted to know about your thoughts on this topic:

Since my driving habits are about to change (i'm gonna drive repetitive short distances on a daily basis) I was thinking on readjusting the OCI.

I'm planning on changing oil every 6 months or 7.500 km (whichever occurs first).

The problem here has to do with doing 2 oil changes per year. During the oil change procedure, many people fill the new filter with oil, but in my case I cannot do this so I have to install it empty (in my car at least I can't pour oil in it, because when I try to screw the filter it drops).

The main issue is that every time we start up the engine after the oil change, the oil filter is empty and the engine works with zero oil during maybe one minute I guess, accelerating the wear and tear of the engine.

All in all, my main question is: changing oil twice a year will put the engine in this kind of adverse environment when starting up the car two times per year, is that worth it?

The only things that will wear abnormally will be the drain plug and filter threads.

 

[tolian21]

Yes there is risk, you can increase chances of stripping drain bolt and cross-thread the oil filter.

 

[Shel_B]

Doesn't work on our 08 Accent, either. It fires right up, straight to full throttle. Surprised and irked me when I accidentally discovered that little gem. Lol

Same here. I was of the mistaken impression that all FI engines had the "clear flooded engine" feature.

 

[CR94]

Yes there is risk, you can increase chances of stripping drain bolt and cross-thread the oil filter.

Only if somebody does something stupid.