Cost of Charging PHEV vs. Gasoline

[alarmguy]

North Carolina registration fee for EVs carries an additional $140 added to the annual registration fee.
I’m sure these fees will be constantly adjusted as well as methods in how the fees are formulated

 

[thastinger]

We have Dominion, and they haven't started any forest fires is about all the good you can say about them IMHO.

However yes the grid is a huge problem as well. So is generation. SSB's - if they can actually exist - would solve both as you could store energy when available, and the batteries could be relatively local so the infrastructure upgrade is not as costly.

I have Dominion as well...and I don't like the extra 5 bucks in my bill for "green energy initiatives"

 

[SC Maintenance]

I have Dominion as well...and I don't like the extra 5 bucks in my bill for "green energy initiatives"

Mine is "renewable energy resources" and its $1.00. I presume our spectacular state legislature (who got us in this mess to begin with) approved it.

 

[fdcg27]

At $0.29/kWh for off peak EV rate here it’s not bad given that I average 3 miles per kWh. Still cheaper than getting gas.

That's nearly .10/mile in energy costs for your Volt.
My HAH easily beats that and you never need to charge it.

 

[thastinger]

Mine is "renewable energy resources" and its $1.00. I presume our spectacular state legislature (who got us in this mess to begin with) approved it.

Mine all appear under a category called "non-bypassable charges"

 

[Trav]

A friend in Germany owns a small SEAT dealership he is paying .92 kWh, non commercial is .62 kWh and yet they still want to mandate ev.
Insanity has no boundaries.

Germany electricity prices	Household, kWh	Business, kWh
Euro	0.563	0.834
U.S. Dollar	0.622	0.922

 

[alarmguy]

A friend in Germany owns a small SEAT dealership he is paying .92 kWh, non commercial is .62 kWh and yet they still want to mandate ev.
Insanity has no boundaries.

Germany electricity prices	Household, kWh	Business, kWh
Euro	0.563	0.834
U.S. Dollar	0.622	0.922

Thank you, next time I read how glorious the cost of living is over there in the EU I can point out a simple thing like electricity cost 500% more than what I pay here.

 

[alarmguy]

Mine all appear under a category called "non-bypassable charges"

Almost sounds criminal !

 

[SC Maintenance]

Mine all appear under a category called "non-bypassable charges"

Must be today's code word for shakedown.

 

[demarpaint]

Must be today's code word for shakedown.

Fleecing works too. Bottom line do your homework, it could save you a lot of money and headaches later on.

 

[dogememe]

That's nearly .10/mile in energy costs for your Volt.
My HAH easily beats that and you never need to charge it.

True. If I truly wanted cheapest cost per mile I probably would have stuck with my paid off 2010 Escape 2.5 ICE that only got around 20MPG but I don’t drive much.

BUT compared to a four cylinder Escape the Volt is quieter and smoother, and quicker around town. The instant torque of EV is super fun even just in regular driving. So it’s a much better driving experience.

If I wanted something else that performed similar to the Volt in around town 0-40 driving, with a smooth, quiet engine, I’d be looking at something that got lousy MPG, and thus cost way more per mile.

Due to the payment it doesn’t pay for itself but when it’s paid off it will. Although I’ll probably just trade it in on Equinox EV or Volvo EX30 at that point because I like EV and would rather drive an EV than a Prius or whatever penalty box is cheaper per mile.

 

[Trav]

Thank you, next time I read how glorious the cost of living is over there in the EU I can point out a simple thing like electricity cost 500% more than what I pay here.

As soon as these green new dealers got in Germans had to bend over like never before. Mandate EV vehicles, ban nuclear power and cut the countries throat. Even leftist media is carrying the story.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/hig...s-are-seeing-some-companies-relocate-bdi.html

 

[alarmguy]

As soon as these green new dealers got in Germans had to bend over like never before. Mandate EV vehicles, ban nuclear power and cut the countries throat. Even leftist media is carrying the story.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/high-german-energy-prices-are-seeing-some-companies-relocate

Yup, we are who and what we vote for and then blame others for our poor choices in free countries.
I have no sympathy not even here. (not political just fact)

Here in NC as stated, IF the cost of an EV was low enough, at least so far with electricity (if you are win a co-op area) so inexpensive if that is all one cared about is saving money at would be a no brainer if what you were going to use an EV for was convenient.
I actually think if next year a new Bolt comes to be we may consider it but I am suspicious of GM, will they dumb it down enough so people are more tempted to upgrade to their new line up of EVs?

 

[fdcg27]

True. If I truly wanted cheapest cost per mile I probably would have stuck with my paid off 2010 Escape 2.5 ICE that only got around 20MPG but I don’t drive much.

BUT compared to a four cylinder Escape the Volt is quieter and smoother, and quicker around town. The instant torque of EV is super fun even just in regular driving. So it’s a much better driving experience.

If I wanted something else that performed similar to the Volt in around town 0-40 driving, with a smooth, quiet engine, I’d be looking at something that got lousy MPG, and thus cost way more per mile.

Due to the payment it doesn’t pay for itself but when it’s paid off it will. Although I’ll probably just trade it in on Equinox EV or Volvo EX30 at that point because I like EV and would rather drive an EV than a Prius or whatever penalty box is cheaper per mile.

The Volt is also slower and noisier than an Accord Hybrid and the HAH also costs less to run than the Volt.
A little more upfront outlay, though, although not too terrible.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yup, we are who and what we vote for and then blame others for our poor choices in free countries.
I have no sympathy not even here. (not political just fact)

Here in NC as stated, IF the cost of an EV was low enough, at least so far with electricity (if you are win a co-op area) so inexpensive if that is all one cared about is saving money at would be a no brainer if what you were going to use an EV for was convenient.
I actually think if next year a new Bolt comes to be we may consider it but I am suspicious of GM, will they dumb it down enough so people are more tempted to upgrade to their new line up of EVs?

If EV's were closer in price to ICE vehicles they might make sense here in SC, but there not. Even if the MSRP gets closer all the dealers want huge adders because of course everyone wants an EV. Except for Tesla which sells at their listed price, but there much more expensive. Even a Rav4 Prime - which isn't even a real EV, costs $11K more MSRP than a comparable ICE Rav4, if you could ever get one at MSRP.

My wife's Rav4 ICE costs about 12 cents per mile for gas in mixed use. Most EV's at the 13.3 cents per KWH would be at about 3.8 cents per mile. So 11,000 / 0.082 =134,000 miles ROI, not even factoring in any time value of money or the cost to wire the charger or whatever. It just doesn't work where I am.

Everyone of course needs to do their own ROI based on their own numbers.

Or just buy what you want and forget about it.

 

[alarmguy]

If EV's were closer in price to ICE vehicles they might make sense here in SC, but there not. Even if the MSRP gets closer all the dealers want huge adders because of course everyone wants an EV. Except for Tesla which sells at their listed price, but there much more expensive. Even a Rav4 Prime - which isn't even a real EV, costs $11K more MSRP than a comparable ICE Rav4, if you could ever get one at MSRP.

My wife's Rav4 ICE costs about 12 cents per mile for gas in mixed use. Most EV's at the 13.3 cents per KWH would be at about 3.8 cents per mile. So 11,000 / 0.082 =134,000 miles ROI, not even factoring in any time value of money or the cost to wire the charger or whatever. It just doesn't work where I am.

Everyone of course needs to do their own ROI based on their own numbers.

Or just buy what you want and forget about it.

Yes, as of right now, same here, Ice is defiantly more cost effective unless one is willing to settle for the last production year and size of the Chevy Bolt
I say last production year because next year will be a whole new battery system and who knows what else they will change.
I thought a nice (never sat in one) looking ICE vehicle besides the usuals like the time proven RAV was the Chevy Trax. I actually like the look, not sure about ride and comfort and haven't seriously looked into it yet but I THINK it was pretty respected for what it is.

 

[Torrid]

And again, your trying to change the topic, because your "no brainer" math isn't so no brainer.

Nothing is no brainer. People need to either do the ROI based on their conditions.

Or just admit to themselves that there buying a EV because that is what they want, not that there is anything at all wrong with this - its there money.

All I am saying.

PS - I realize you won't grasp this concept. Posting it for others.

I think you’re reading what I said and interpreting it in a completely different matter than what I said. “For our situation it would be a no brainer”. I had to double check because it had already drug along so far now, but I wasn’t even talking about the average person buying an EV in that post. I was talking about driving only EVs if I had solar. You aren’t even talking about the same thing I was referencing in that post.

That last part was really necessary. How about we back off the passive aggressiveness a bit and act like adults.

 

[demarpaint]

Yup, we are who and what we vote for and then blame others for our poor choices in free countries.
I have no sympathy not even here. (not political just fact)

Here in NC as stated, IF the cost of an EV was low enough, at least so far with electricity (if you are win a co-op area) so inexpensive if that is all one cared about is saving money at would be a no brainer if what you were going to use an EV for was convenient.
I actually think if next year a new Bolt comes to be we may consider it but I am suspicious of GM, will they dumb it down enough so people are more tempted to upgrade to their new line up of EVs?

Here's the rub with "if the cost of electricity is low enough," there's no guarantee for how long. Just like in life, nothing is guaranteed. Add demand and the price goes up, what's cheap now might not be in a year. Solar panels on the roof might help, if you have them, if you have to pay that's another story. Bottom line if you're depending on the electric company to keep electric cheap, don't.

 

[Torrid]

If EV's were closer in price to ICE vehicles they might make sense here in SC, but there not. Even if the MSRP gets closer all the dealers want huge adders because of course everyone wants an EV. Except for Tesla which sells at their listed price, but there much more expensive. Even a Rav4 Prime - which isn't even a real EV, costs $11K more MSRP than a comparable ICE Rav4, if you could ever get one at MSRP.

My wife's Rav4 ICE costs about 12 cents per mile for gas in mixed use. Most EV's at the 13.3 cents per KWH would be at about 3.8 cents per mile. So 11,000 / 0.082 =134,000 miles ROI, not even factoring in any time value of money or the cost to wire the charger or whatever. It just doesn't work where I am.

Everyone of course needs to do their own ROI based on their own numbers.

Or just buy what you want and forget about it.

You make some good points here and I’d have a hard time buying any EV that wasn’t a Tesla, pricing and charging network included. These plug in hybrids are infinitely more complicated than both and seem to show a cost more than either in most cases.

I already did my breakdown to explain why it instantly is cheaper for me and that comes down to what we were cross shopping. Though if I could use the same logic you threw at me I could pick a less expensive car than the RAV4 and tell you why that was wrong and nitpick the reason why you purchased it because of what I personally like instead. I would think it was fair to say you bought the vehicle that your wife wanted to drive? If so that played a big part in our purchase too.

 

[Torrid]

Here's the rub with "if the cost of electricity is low enough," there's no guarantee for how long. Just like in life, nothing is guaranteed. Add demand and the price goes up, what's cheap now might not be in a year. Solar panels on the roof might help, if you have them, if you have to pay that's another story. Bottom line if you're depending on the electric company to keep electric cheap, don't.

Yeah but that goes both ways. Gas could go through the roof. I think instead of worrying about what price might increase we just buy what we like. At the end of the day it’s all speculation.