Conventional Oil in Direct Injection Engines?

[gregoron]

I just bought a 2014 VW Jetta GLI with the 3rd generation EA888 2.0L TSI four direct injection engine. After reading up on carbon buildup on the previous generation 2.0 TSI/FSI, I’m concerned about what oil I should put in mine after my factory filled free oil change period is up.

So far I’ve learned that this 3rd generation TSI is not as susceptible to carbon buildup on the intake valves as have prior generation engines. Also, fuel cleaners, catch cans, etc. have not really been proven to clean or prevent carbon buildup which is caused by unburned oil seeping through the valve stem seals from the PCV or EGR system. But, I'm looking for other preventative measures just in case my "Italian Tune Up" routine of running the engine above 3000 RPM for 20 minutes once a week is not enough. I'm looking specifically at the main contributor to carbon build-up, which is oil.

Thus, after searching BITOG for “clean burning oil”, I came upon these threads:

1. Cleanest Burning Oils: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3093611

2. Oil Related Failure in The Genesis Rotary Engine: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1581944/2

So, I’m asking if using conventional oil (i.e. Castrol GTX 10W-40) at 5000 OCI in my 2.0L TSI engine would minimize carbon build up on the intake valves with the assumption that this dino oil will burn off more and faster than synthetic oils before it gets into the PCV/EGR system – much in the same way that it does so in rotary engine applications?

 

[Kamele0N]

[censored]...dino oil will be chewed up much faster...so you will have much higher oil consumption...

use low saps oil...C3 or any HDEO E7/E9

 

[Garak]

I'd stick the specified VW approved oil. Your hypothesis is certainly interesting, but I don't know if I'd want to be the one testing it. Of course, you're talking about down the road, rather than immediately under warranty.

 

[Scum_Frog]

Why would u run conventional oil in a VW 2.0L turbo engine??? I think you would be asking for problems.
Your GLI specs VW502 and no conventional oil meets that spec.
Stick to the readily available Euro spec oils that meet the VW,MB, BMW and Porche specs and don't overthink it.

 

[wemay]

I agree with everyone above me. Stick to an oil that meets VW approvals. No conventional meets that spec. If it only required SN/GF-5, that'd be another story.

 

[dave123]

For VW warranty reason you will have to run a spec. Oil

 

[sciphi]

No. Run a quality synthetic oil and change it at a reasonable interval.

A conventional will get cooked by the turbo long before the valves get coated in junk. So the engine might have the cleanest valves but the dirtiest (and often-replaced) turbo.

Look at it from a whole-system approach. The oil isn't just lubing the valves and cylinder walls, it's lubing and cooling the turbo as well. Yes the turbo is water-cooled. That just means it is less likely to coke up. When the car is shut down, especially if it's driven by somebody else who doesn't appreciate that the turbo needs some gentle driving or idling to cool off after a high-speed drive, having a synthetic that can withstand the heat is important.

 

[gregoron]

Thanks for the replies above. Yes, I will stick to VW 502 oil specially during warranty period. As a follow up question, I have easy access to the following oils (all VW 502 certified/approved):

1. M1 0W-40
2. Castrol 0W-40
3. SynPower 5W-40
4. Motul 5W-40

Which of these would have the lowest SAP for a direct injection engine?

Also, on my hypothesis above, wouldn't it make sense to run dino oil that burns off clean in a direct injection engine same as rotary engines which also have high compression and high heat, provided you run it a short intervals like 3000 miles? I mean these rotary engines can go up to 10k RPMs and have oil purposely injected with fuel.

 

[wemay]

With their recent 'economy minded' proliferation, many turbo applications don't specify the use of full synthetics anymore and their owners are none worse for wear. Granted, their OCI are shorter and special approvals above API and ILSAC are not required as opposed to your Volkswagen.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: gregoron
Thanks for the replies above. Yes, I will stick to VW 502 oil specially during warranty period. As a follow up question, I have easy access to the following oils (all VW 502 certified/approved):

1. M1 0W-40
2. Castrol 0W-40
3. SynPower 5W-40
4. Motul 5W-40

Which of these would have the lowest SAP for a direct injection engine?

Also, on my hypothesis above, wouldn't it make sense to run dino oil that burns off clean in a direct injection engine same as rotary engines which also have high compression and high heat, provided you run it a short intervals like 3000 miles? I mean these rotary engines can go up to 10k RPMs and have oil purposely injected with fuel.


My vote is for the top two on your list. Easy to find, cheap to buy (Walmart), and a plethora of very stringent approvals.

 

[CT8]

Conventional oils deposits are supposed to be softer than syn oils.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: gregoron
I just bought a 2014 VW Jetta GLI with the 3rd generation EA888 2.0L TSI four direct injection engine. After reading up on carbon buildup on the previous generation 2.0 TSI/FSI, I’m concerned about what oil I should put in mine after my factory filled free oil change period is up.

So far I’ve learned that this 3rd generation TSI is not as susceptible to carbon buildup on the intake valves as have prior generation engines. Also, fuel cleaners, catch cans, etc. have not really been proven to clean or prevent carbon buildup which is caused by unburned oil seeping through the valve stem seals from the PCV or EGR system. But, I'm looking for other preventative measures just in case my "Italian Tune Up" routine of running the engine above 3000 RPM for 20 minutes once a week is not enough. I'm looking specifically at the main contributor to carbon build-up, which is oil.

Thus, after searching BITOG for “clean burning oil”, I came upon these threads:

1. Cleanest Burning Oils: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3093611

2. Oil Related Failure in The Genesis Rotary Engine: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1581944/2

So, I’m asking if using conventional oil (i.e. Castrol GTX 10W-40) at 5000 OCI in my 2.0L TSI engine would minimize carbon build up on the intake valves with the assumption that this dino oil will burn off more and faster than synthetic oils before it gets into the PCV/EGR system – much in the same way that it does so in rotary engine applications?

Have 2nd gen 2.0TSI. Never had carbon issues. Always used VW 502.00, VW 505.01 and most importantly, oil that meets MB 229.5 specification, and change it every 5K.
My choice:
1. Castrol 0W40
2. M1 0W40
3. Pentosin 5W40

Synthetic oil in you car is not primarily because of carbon deposits, but high output and turbo. Those engines run HOT! And they are made for performance.
VW had issues with 1.8T engine in B.5 and Audi A4 1.8T. Huge amount of the engines had sludge bombs because people used Dino or regular synthetic oils.
So stick to those oils I recommended and some other people here and call it a day.
Also, dealership oil they put uses Castrol 5W40 that doe NOT meet MB 229.5. So if I were you, between those free changes I would change oil on your own using one of those oils we recommended.
Once you are done with free changes, use again those recommended oils and NOT Castrol 5W40.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: wemay
With their recent 'economy minded' proliferation, many turbo applications don't specify the use of full synthetics anymore and their owners are none worse for wear. Granted, their OCI are shorter and special approvals above API and ILSAC are not required as opposed to your Volkswagen.


That's what I thought. It hasn't met approval by the manufacturer.

I mean max operating temp between dino and synthetic oil shouldn't be that far off. I do realize that coking of the turbo bearing after engine shut off could be more exacerbated by conventional oil. But, if you let the oil cool off (i.e. 190F) prior to shutting down, and change at shorter OCI's, this could be another solution to prevent/minimize carbon buildup on the intake valves. I wish I could experiment with this but it'll have to wait until my warranty runs out and if my engine actually does have that intake valve deposit problem.

Given the lack of port injection in my GLI to wash off the carbon from the valves, it seems the only working solutions I have for now are:

1. clean burning (low SAPS) synthetic oil
2. Italian tune up once in a while.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: gregoron
I just bought a 2014 VW Jetta GLI with the 3rd generation EA888 2.0L TSI four direct injection engine. After reading up on carbon buildup on the previous generation 2.0 TSI/FSI, I’m concerned about what oil I should put in mine after my factory filled free oil change period is up.

So far I’ve learned that this 3rd generation TSI is not as susceptible to carbon buildup on the intake valves as have prior generation engines. Also, fuel cleaners, catch cans, etc. have not really been proven to clean or prevent carbon buildup which is caused by unburned oil seeping through the valve stem seals from the PCV or EGR system. But, I'm looking for other preventative measures just in case my "Italian Tune Up" routine of running the engine above 3000 RPM for 20 minutes once a week is not enough. I'm looking specifically at the main contributor to carbon build-up, which is oil.

Thus, after searching BITOG for “clean burning oil”, I came upon these threads:

1. Cleanest Burning Oils: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3093611

2. Oil Related Failure in The Genesis Rotary Engine: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1581944/2

So, I’m asking if using conventional oil (i.e. Castrol GTX 10W-40) at 5000 OCI in my 2.0L TSI engine would minimize carbon build up on the intake valves with the assumption that this dino oil will burn off more and faster than synthetic oils before it gets into the PCV/EGR system – much in the same way that it does so in rotary engine applications?

Have 2nd gen 2.0TSI. Never had carbon issues. Always used VW 502.00, VW 505.01 and most importantly, oil that meets MB 229.5 specification, and change it every 5K.
My choice:
1. Castrol 0W40
2. M1 0W40
3. Pentosin 5W40

Synthetic oil in you car is not primarily because of carbon deposits, but high output and turbo. Those engines run HOT! And they are made for performance.
VW had issues with 1.8T engine in B.5 and Audi A4 1.8T. Huge amount of the engines had sludge bombs because people used Dino or regular synthetic oils.
So stick to those oils I recommended and some other people here and call it a day.
Also, dealership oil they put uses Castrol 5W40 that doe NOT meet MB 229.5. So if I were you, between those free changes I would change oil on your own using one of those oils we recommended.
Once you are done with free changes, use again those recommended oils and NOT Castrol 5W40.


That's positive news for my GLI. Thanks.

Yes, I'll stick to these certified oils mentioned above.

 

[HerrStig]

2 cycle oil burns nice and clean, if you are interested in an expensive experiment.

 

[bbhero]

If and I mean IF I ever bought a VW.... I would ask Edyvw for a recommendation. He is well versed, experienced with the cars, and very smart too. Though I question his sanity in "other" issues

Just pulling your chain Edyvw !

 

[Pontual]

Dino will paint your hot engine of varnish much quicker than a VW speced. What make the deposits in valves, as oil concerned (there's fuel in this math) isn't the base of the oil, but the ash contents of the additive pack burnt and the high saps oils.

 

[donnyj08]

OP please don't run a conventional in that engine. Run a quality 0w40 with the VW spec.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: gregoron
But, I'm looking for other preventative measures just in case my "Italian Tune Up" routine of running the engine above 3000 RPM for 20 minutes once a week is not enough.


Why even buy a new car if you have to do all that? Jeeze.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: gregoron
But, I'm looking for other preventative measures just in case my "Italian Tune Up" routine of running the engine above 3000 RPM for 20 minutes once a week is not enough.


Why even buy a new car if you have to do all that? Jeeze.


I didn't know that DI engines had this problem when I got it. Just discovered it later. Hopefully my engine version won't be too bad. Anyways, it's not a hassle running my car at 3k RPM on my 20 min commute one way. It's actually fun. I use to drive an MK4 Jetta 2.Slow on the same route on fifth gear going 70 MPH at 3200 RPM. I just leave my GLI in fourth gear and it does the same thing.