Contemplating the naval
- Thread starter DeepFriar
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I think that's a good thing.......Hope it stays that way. The Chinese are setting up an island somewhere to hide nuclear subs.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...s-maritime-goal
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...s-maritime-goal
I guess all the Battle of Leyte Gulf U.S. ships are no longer in service then. That was no light skirmish.
Active duty being the explanatory words. I don't see the point, if there was one intended.
Stop buying Chinese made because it is cheaper. That's loyalty to your country, which also is the government. Fat chance people will do that.
Stop buying Chinese made because it is cheaper. That's loyalty to your country, which also is the government. Fat chance people will do that.
No point intended. Just an interesting factoid given our involvements around the world. It is a good indication though that warships are considered capital assets and the sinking of one will probably be the prelude to a much bigger problem.
We created the whole Chinese market thing ourselves,either by always wanting the cheapest price,and greed on the part of the companies that cant make enough margin to feed their coffers and their shareholders pockets.Whenever someone walks into any store,the first thing out of their mouth is "and what will that cost?" Heaven forbid if the price is higher than their random,expectation of what its worth."Oh,I'm on a fixed income and cant afford to spend too much on my stuff".Well,who isn't on a fixed income?? If you get paid XX dollars per hour and work 40 hours....that equals the same pay each week.Just like a Social Security receipient.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
I think that's a good thing.......Hope it stays that way. The Chinese are setting up an island somewhere to hide nuclear subs.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...s-maritime-goal
The sub base is actually on the south side of Hainan Island. It's been up and running for awhile now and you can see it on Google Earth. My guess is that those faux islands they are building's main function, other than trying to extend sovereignty, is to set up a SOSUS-like system so they can protect that Hainan base, keep out our attack boats and turn the S. China Sea into a SLBM bastion from which to safely launch their missiles. Interesting strategic problem.
I think that's a good thing.......Hope it stays that way. The Chinese are setting up an island somewhere to hide nuclear subs.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...s-maritime-goal
The sub base is actually on the south side of Hainan Island. It's been up and running for awhile now and you can see it on Google Earth. My guess is that those faux islands they are building's main function, other than trying to extend sovereignty, is to set up a SOSUS-like system so they can protect that Hainan base, keep out our attack boats and turn the S. China Sea into a SLBM bastion from which to safely launch their missiles. Interesting strategic problem.
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
We created the whole Chinese market thing ourselves,either by always wanting the cheapest price,and greed on the part of the companies that cant make enough margin to feed their coffers and their shareholders pockets. Whenever someone walks into any store,the first thing out of their mouth is "and what will that cost?" Heaven forbid if the price is higher than their random,expectation of what its worth."Oh,I'm on a fixed income and cant afford to spend too much on my stuff".Well,who isn't on a fixed income?? If you get paid XX dollars per hour and work 40 hours....that equals the same pay each week.Just like a Social Security receipient.
Yes, just excuses most of the time saying can't afford it. Then go see what else they own, like a home paid off years ago and lots of toys. The Chinese tools are now well made and now cost what the USA made did before the manufacturing takeover, for name brands. Apple can make the iPhone here for like $47 more, maybe less, but instead they chose to increase their cash hoard. They still would be rich plus have the iPhone made in USA. Chinese businessmen are smart and ruthless, they know the simple plan of take the market away and destroy the competition with low prices, then raise the prices.
From a security standpoint, in WWII we could make everything ourselves, can we now? Can we make complex electronics on a mass scale? I bought a GE dishwasher, said made in USA at the time. I saw inside the motor was made in China. Most of our appliance parts are made in China it seems. We are in deep do do I am afraid.
We created the whole Chinese market thing ourselves,either by always wanting the cheapest price,and greed on the part of the companies that cant make enough margin to feed their coffers and their shareholders pockets. Whenever someone walks into any store,the first thing out of their mouth is "and what will that cost?" Heaven forbid if the price is higher than their random,expectation of what its worth."Oh,I'm on a fixed income and cant afford to spend too much on my stuff".Well,who isn't on a fixed income?? If you get paid XX dollars per hour and work 40 hours....that equals the same pay each week.Just like a Social Security receipient.
Yes, just excuses most of the time saying can't afford it. Then go see what else they own, like a home paid off years ago and lots of toys. The Chinese tools are now well made and now cost what the USA made did before the manufacturing takeover, for name brands. Apple can make the iPhone here for like $47 more, maybe less, but instead they chose to increase their cash hoard. They still would be rich plus have the iPhone made in USA. Chinese businessmen are smart and ruthless, they know the simple plan of take the market away and destroy the competition with low prices, then raise the prices.
From a security standpoint, in WWII we could make everything ourselves, can we now? Can we make complex electronics on a mass scale? I bought a GE dishwasher, said made in USA at the time. I saw inside the motor was made in China. Most of our appliance parts are made in China it seems. We are in deep do do I am afraid.
Quote:
..... other than trying to extend sovereignty, is to set up a SOSUS-like system so they can protect that Hainan base, keep out our attack boats and turn the S. China Sea into a SLBM bastion from which to safely launch their missiles. Interesting strategic problem.
Come to think of it there would be no need for a passive listening system in a relatively confined area. Our boats are quiet so the bad guys are faced with a problem. With multiple locations in that small of an area they could actively ping on a more or less constant basis and triangulate the returns. The rubber skins and tactics of our boats better be very good and I'm sure they are. Tougher problem than I first thought though.
..... other than trying to extend sovereignty, is to set up a SOSUS-like system so they can protect that Hainan base, keep out our attack boats and turn the S. China Sea into a SLBM bastion from which to safely launch their missiles. Interesting strategic problem.
Come to think of it there would be no need for a passive listening system in a relatively confined area. Our boats are quiet so the bad guys are faced with a problem. With multiple locations in that small of an area they could actively ping on a more or less constant basis and triangulate the returns. The rubber skins and tactics of our boats better be very good and I'm sure they are. Tougher problem than I first thought though.
Originally Posted By: Yognoff
That's pretty crazy and I wonder why that's the case. It seemed like you had to be a naval power from 16th to 19th century to have any pull on the world stage.
???
I'm not following you. Naval power wanes quickly if it's not supported. It can be built if supported. For example, Japan had no real Navy in the 16th century, none in the early 19th, but in 1941, they had quite a Navy...
So what's crazy?
And why do you think you need a naval tradition to build a Navy?
That's pretty crazy and I wonder why that's the case. It seemed like you had to be a naval power from 16th to 19th century to have any pull on the world stage.
???
I'm not following you. Naval power wanes quickly if it's not supported. It can be built if supported. For example, Japan had no real Navy in the 16th century, none in the early 19th, but in 1941, they had quite a Navy...
So what's crazy?
And why do you think you need a naval tradition to build a Navy?
It's not the working men and women it's the appointees. If it's all a mystery to you, then start looking around.
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
..... other than trying to extend sovereignty, is to set up a SOSUS-like system so they can protect that Hainan base, keep out our attack boats and turn the S. China Sea into a SLBM bastion from which to safely launch their missiles. Interesting strategic problem.
Here is an overhead view of the port and underground sub pen on Hainan Island discussed earlier. Quite a complex and quite an investment. Meant to utterly dominate that area and, in my mind, provide three other important benefits - Sits astride the oil sea lanes to Taiwan and Japan. Provides a protected first and second strike capability vis-a-vis India without missile plumes/tracks emanating from north China that would make US/Russia very nervous. And holds at risk all forward US/allied Pacific assets to include Hawaii, Australia and Okinawa/Guam, et al.
SLBM's would likely not have the legs for a shooting match with the US mainland (that's the job of an esimated 3,000 miles of underground ICBM launch tunnels farther north. Falls right in line with their anti access / area denial strategy. Very destabilizing and we're falling behind the curve. Time to wake up.
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