Contaminated fuel and Progressive Insurance

[GON]

Came across this on Facebook. The case for this post was a CP4 fuel pump failure, causing likely $12k USD to repair.

The center of gravity on the thread is that an insurance company, unless stated otherwise, covers repairs to a motor vehicle caused from contaminated fuel. The thread discusses concerns of Progressive finding ways to not cover the loss.

"" I wanted to take a moment to share my recent experience with Progressive Insurance regarding a fuel contamination claim for my 2019 F250. This post is intended to inform and help others navigate the insurance process, not to express frustration.
After receiving the codes P2291, P0087, and a potential CP4 failure, I had my truck towed to a local Ford dealership. The dealership confirmed that the CP4 pump had failed and noted corrosion, advising me to file a claim with my insurance company. I followed the proper procedures, but was informed by a claims adjuster supervisor that my claim had been denied due to mechanical failure, not fuel contamination.
When seeking further clarification, I was told the decision was based on a fuel sample taken by Progressive. However, there were several key points about the process that I’d like to share:

• • Fuel Sample: The claims supervisor was unable to clarify where the fuel sample was taken from or how much fuel was tested.
  • Class Action Lawsuit: The supervisor mentioned that Ford has an ongoing class action lawsuit against Progressive and that they categorize these issues as mechanical failures unless contamination is clearly evident in the fuel sample. However, no specifics were provided on how much fuel had been tested.
  • Investigation Process: They requested a list of the last locations where I had filled up, cross-referencing this information with reports or complaints filed with the state.
  • No Full Analysis: Progressive declined to send the fuel sample for further analysis, citing a $10,000 cost. They stated that if I wanted to pursue that, I would need to handle it myself. Despite the dealership’s detailed report, they insisted it was my responsibility to provide the necessary evidence after Fords report to them.
  • State Variations: Interestingly, I spoke with two other policyholders with Progressive—one in North Texas and another in Kansas—who reported that Progressive sent their fuel samples for analysis. While their claims were initially denied, they were later approved. This suggests that the handling of claims vary by state.

The takeaway here is that while Progressive may offer lower premiums, it’s important to carefully review your policy and understand what is and isn’t covered, particularly in cases where you may need to file a claim. Be prepared to advocate for yourself and ensure that your coverage aligns with your expectations.
I hope this information helps others in similar situations. Stay informed and make sure you fully understand your insurance coverage.""

 

[drtyler]

Maybe Progressive is correct and the fuel did not cause the pump failure? Why should the insurance company be on the hook for a poorly designed mechanical part?

 

[GON]

Maybe Progressive is correct and the fuel did not cause the pump failure? Why should the insurance company be on the hook for a poorly designed mechanical part?

I think the Facebook poster believes fuel contamination, as diagnosed by Ford is the reason for the CP4 failure. You and I can speculate that, but the official diagnosis from Ford stated the CP4 failure was from fuel contamination. If fuel contamination is in fact accurate, the CP4 design issues are irrelevant.

 

[drtyler]

I think the Facebook poster believes fuel contamination, as diagnosed by Ford is the reason for the CP4 failure. You and I can speculate that, but the official diagnosis from Ford stated the CP4 failure was from fuel contamination. If fuel contamination is in fact accurate, the CP4 design issues are irrelevant.

May be the cynic in me, but it could be that Ford or dealer manager has told the folks on the floor to always cite fuel contamination as the reason for pump failure. Ford is trying to push the cost onto the insurance company to avoid losing customers over the cost of replacing the entire fuel system due to the pump failure.

I can certainly understand Progressive not wanting to foot the bill for all of the failed CP4 pumps and fuel system replacements. II can also understand why Progressive wants their own review, and not just blindly trusting the dealerships.

I don't trust any of the entities involved in this mess (and I doubt that you trust them either @GON). I'm glad you post these notes to keep us all aware of the issues.

 

[GON]

May be the cynic in me, but it could be that Ford or dealer manager has told the folks on the floor to always cite fuel contamination as the reason for pump failure. Ford is trying to push the cost onto the insurance company to avoid losing customers over the cost of replacing the entire fuel system due to the pump failure.

I don't trust any of the entities involved in this mess (and I doubt that you trust them either @GON). I'm glad you post these notes to keep us all aware of the issues.

I own a Ford with 58k miles and a CP4. The concerns of the CP4 triggered me to buy a $5k USD Ford extended warranty- I never buy extended warranties. There is an aftermarket solution to the CP4. The issues with the aftermarket solution, it then may void engine warranties.

How I mitigate the Cp4 risk a bit is using ample lube supplement with the diesel fuel, and replaced the two fuel filters every 5k miles.

 

[drtyler]

How I mitigate the Cp4 risk a bit is using ample lube supplement with the diesel fuel, and replaced the two fuel filters every 5k miles.

I think this is the best you can do, and buy fuel from reputable, high volume stations when possible. I know that last part is easier said than done when traveling.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I would have thought the Filling station was on the hook. The possible root of the problem. A good reason to not " sleep around" with your fuel buys if possible

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Reminds me of the 70's at ARCO when I used to stick the tank with tell-tale paste and report to the owner, "it;s fine, there is only 4" of water down there!"

After the MTBE fiasco era, don't most all UGST after have water sensors? I don't keep up on this stuff.

 

[dnewton3]

The problem is that neither Ford nor Progressive (or any insurance company for that matter) have the customer's best interest in mind. Both companies are going to benefit by blaming someone else, if possible. Delay, defer, deny, depose, deliberate ... sound familiar?

The only way to know about the true nature of the failure is to hire a third party (independent tester) and have the fuel checked, then hire a lawyer. It's likely that in a settlement (against either Ford or Progressive based on the test results) you can get reimbursed for the test costs. But it's a LONG, SLOW, DIFFICULT process if one takes the legal suit route.

 

[The Critic]

May be the cynic in me, but it could be that Ford or dealer manager has told the folks on the floor to always cite fuel contamination as the reason for pump failure. Ford is trying to push the cost onto the insurance company to avoid losing customers over the cost of replacing the entire fuel system due to the pump failure.

This. Someone wants to get paid c/p time for the job and not warranty time?

Also, if contaminated fuel was the cause, it would be very evident. Corrosion doesn't happen from just one tank of contaminated fuel.

 

[bdcardinal]

It doesn't take much to nerf a CP4. We can usually tell pretty quick by pulling off the volume control valve on top. Either there will be metal flakes or crystals from DEF. Very rarely have we seen an actual straight up failure of the pump. It is almost always something causing it.

The DCR kit is the way to go on one of these, S&S put a lot of R&D into it to make install as easy as possible. It is what I would do if I had a 6.7, ideally before any failure. Also the locking DEF caps are nice, we had a customer put DEF in their fuel, we fixed it and the next week put DEF in their fuel again.

 

[DuckRyder]

Insurance covers in most cases "direct, sudden and accidental damage". Corrosion is evidence of an ongoing issue or Wear Tear and Deterioration, which is under most polices excluded.

Furthermore i would be interested to hear what Ford's supposed cause of action is against Progressive? (I think it is much more likely Progressive has a suit against Ford in an attempt to subrogate)

 

[crazy8]

I own a Ford with 58k miles and a CP4. The concerns of the CP4 triggered me to buy a $5k USD Ford extended warranty- I never buy extended warranties. There is an aftermarket solution to the CP4. The issues with the aftermarket solution, it then may void engine warranties.

How I mitigate the Cp4 risk a bit is using ample lube supplement with the diesel fuel, and replaced the two fuel filters every 5k miles.

I have a 2021 Ford with the CP4 also and I have not used any fuel additive yet. What additive are you using?

After watching Dave's Auto Center Videos,I did buy a 6 pack of his Secret Sauce as a way to get started using additives in my fuel.

I also purchased the extended warranty from Ford.

 

[TimeFlies]

Was the water seperator on this truck, so neglected that it was also full, and let water past. That alone is the owners negligence, and right there would void the terms of the insurance policy.

 

[GON]

I have a 2021 Ford with the CP4 also and I have not used any fuel additive yet. What additive are you using?

After watching Dave's Auto Center Videos,I did buy a 6 pack of his Secret Sauce as a way to get started using additives in my fuel.

I also purchased the extended warranty from Ford.

I am using Power Service.

The below video is awesome. All five of the additives received a independent lab test costing $800 per test $4k USD total.

Video is long- but super informative:

 

[TimeFlies]

 

[fdcg27]

The best solution might be to just say no to owning one of these trucks.
Current diesels seem to be more temperamental than anything I'd want to deal with.
What's the point?

 

[Sumboodie]

I am using Power Service.

The below video is awesome. All five of the additives received a independent lab test costing $800 per test $4k USD total.

Video is long- but super informative:

Which one is good? There's no audio on the video.

 

[GON]

Which one is good? There's no audio on the video.

From the video:
Best Ranked to Lowest Rank:

1. XPD optilub- cut the wear scare vs not using it by 50 percent- most expensive

2. Archoil – very high increase in lubricity- best value of the five

3. Power Service (highest level of cyanate improvement)

4. Hot Shot Secret (by far lowest cost to use per gallon)

5. Stanadyne- did virtually nothing and costs second highest

I currently use Power Service. The test results from the video have influenced me to switch to XPD. If I was a hotshot driver, I would use the Archoil as costs for a hotshot driver are a significant factor.

 

[Sumboodie]

From the video:
Best Ranked to Lowest Rank:

1. XPD optilub- cut the wear scare vs not using it by 50 percent- most expensive

2. Archoil – very high increase in lubricity- best value of the five

3. Power Service (highest level of cyanate improvement)

4. Hot Shot Secret (by far lowest cost to use per gallon)

5. Stanadyne- did virtually nothing and costs second highest

I currently use Power Service. The test results from the video have influenced me to switch to XPD. If I was a hotshot driver, I would use the Archoil as costs for a hotshot driver are a significant factor.

Xpd is hard to find and classed as HAZMAT so they won't ship to AK.

I got some Hot Shots on a Blacks Friday Amazon sale.

Big jug only good for 350 gallons. My tank is 1000. Usually order only 500-600 though.