Considering the move from Android to Apple.... Opinions!

[AutoMechanic]

I personally prefer Apple. Android has never impressed me with anything they have offered and it’s also a harder interface to use for me. I switched to iPhone in 2019 and never looked back. It took me years to convince my anti Apple parents to buy me an iPhone, now I’m trying to convince them to get one lol. The only reason they didn’t get iPhone as their first smartphone is because the guy at Verizon was anti Apple and stuck it in their head that Apple was bad. All my electronics except my TV are Apple because Apple doesn’t make physical TVs yet but hopefully soon. The ecosystem just goes so well together and also in my eyes it makes people look a lot smarter when they have Apple products. Every IT and computer person anti Apple or not has told me that Apple is a lot safer too and almost impossible to hack.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes I know lol

OK, good, lol

We don't need to get that far into the weeds though. The user doesn't care about RISC vs CISC or 32 bit or 64 bit. They care about how well it works for them. So direct comparisons compare the user experience, not the underlying arch. And of course there are software that runs on both platforms where the performance is measured and very cut and dry. How fast does it take to open firefox? How long does it take to render a video. How long to compile my java/web project and so on. Am I hearing the fan all day every day? Do I run out of battery life?

We aren't your typical end user though, right? Like GTL vs PAO, the underlying framework/architecture is interesting and warrants discussion on this platform I think. If we look back at the PowerPC stuff, those CPU's were legitimately faster than x86 in many ways, and slower in others. But, the UX was considerably better than Windows, and that's a core component of what brought the whole thing together and made for the Mac "experience".

Despite all that, Microsoft still "won" in that space. I feel a bit like this is round 2.

They're still running windows with spyware/adware and bloat, copilot, mandatory online accounts and telemetry, windows recall (apparently not mandatory but how many turn it off) and so on . They have dialogs in windows that first appeared in like windows 98 era, some forms are closer to windows 8, some are newer. It's a dog pile at this point.

Yeah, setting up a local account requires a workaround. The fact that a tool like Chris Titus's "WinUtil" exists to automate the disabling of all this insane telemetry really is a scathing indictment of the state of Windows at this point.

So I don't think we're disagreeing, my comments started in response to the poster who said "Macbooks are overpriced hardware" which is patently false, for the reasons I've been mentioning. Looking at the complete picture, there is no better bang for the buck IMHO when you stick with their entry/moderately spec'ed machines. They do have some bad options ($1000 monitor stand ) but I'm mainly thinking of their macbooks and minis.

Yeah, and I am in agreement, but thought it relevant to point out the difference in architecture, as that can be germane, depending on the usage profile.

 

[hemioiler]

OK, good, lol

We aren't your typical end user though, right?

I'm arguing from the perspective of the end user. You can be an enthusiast, office worker, software dev, graphics designer, music production, or new user, the mac experience is the premium experience. Hardcore gamer... well the games that do exist on mac run well but in terms of sheer availability you're still better off somewhere else. I don't game so there's that.

 

[hemioiler]

Despite all that, Microsoft still "won" in that space. I feel a bit like this is round 2.

Apple has never had this much control over the entire system as they do now. The M chips were a game changer when they came out and every revision is major update and performance upgrade over the previous one. And at the same time we have windows which is cutting itself with a thousand cuts.

Apple hardware has always been held back by the PowerPC and Intel stuff. Performance was ok at times, but never this combination of performance, and efficiency. I bought a G4 back in the day and it was a $2500 let down, like a year later they came out with intel chips and performance was increased making mine worthless. I swore I'd never do that again yet here we are, thankfully I didn't pay for the one on my desk.

Throughout the years you could find reviews on their laptops and pre M it was always a let down in some way. Major throttling, or heat issues or whatever it was. These M chips, they're something else entirely.

As for "win"; we will see. I honestly couldn't care less who has the "popular vote", as long as I have access to the better option everyone else can suffer if they choose to lol, "not my problem" to put it bluntly (and of course my preference is linux so we all know how much "popularity" matters to us nerds).

It's the same when it comes to vehicle brand bias, sometimes the "market leader" in a segment really isn't the best choice but they're at the top for other reasons. Human bias being what it is, a worse or equal product can stay on top simply because people feel the most popular = the best so it maintains its own momentum. This is why Ford continues to push its marketing re "f series is best selling" despite not holding up when you dig into it, GM has been beating them for years now.

 

[OVERKILL]

Apple has never had this much control over the entire system as they do now. The M chips were a game changer when they came out and every revision is major update and performance upgrade over the previous one. And at the same time we have windows which is cutting itself with a thousand cuts.

Apple hardware has always been held back by the PowerPC and Intel stuff. Performance was ok at times, but never this combination of performance, and efficiency. I bought a G4 back in the day and it was a $2500 let down, like a year later they came out with intel chips and performance was increased making mine worthless. I swore I'd never do that again yet here we are, thankfully I didn't pay for the one on my desk.

Throughout the years you could find reviews on their laptops and pre M it was always a let down in some way. Major throttling, or heat issues or whatever it was. These M chips, they're something else entirely.

As for "win"; we will see. I honestly couldn't care less who has the "popular vote", as long as I have access to the better option everyone else can suffer if they choose to lol, "not my problem" to put it bluntly (and of course my preference is linux so we all know how much "popularity" matters to us nerds).

It's the same when it comes to vehicle brand bias, sometimes the "market leader" in a segment really isn't the best choice but they're at the top for other reasons. Human bias being what it is, a worse or equal product can stay on top simply because people feel the most popular = the best so it maintains its own momentum. This is why Ford continues to push its marketing re "f series is best selling" despite not holding up when you dig into it, GM has been beating them for years now.

K, we are on the same page

BTW, I have a Powerbook G3 in my computer museum (speaking of PowerPC), @Rand has the heatspreader for it, so I can't use it until I get that (I had to buy one on e-bay). I really liked the older Apple hardware and software, they were incredibly popular in the Education space, but that never seemed to translate to consumer sales. That changed completely with the smartphone and their displacement of Blackberry. That has given them a massive leg-up here with the M-stuff, as has their holistic approach to software architecture (which I touched-on in another thread) which has delivered a consistent experience. The iPhone and iPad have successfully drawn more people into the Apple ecosystem than any previous deliberate effort, the M-series stuff is capitalizing on that, and their ability to price it reasonably, compared to their previous offerings, is only going to help them here.

The other thing, as we already touched-on, is Microsoft vibe-coding and telemetry-izing their primary product into so much of a hot mess that it is actively driving people to seek alternatives. They are actually talking about walking some of this (copilot, microsoft account...etc.) back, the feedback has been so bad. HP, Dell and Lenovo can polish up their hardware as much as they like, but if people aren't buying it because Windows has become radioactive trash, that's going to affect the entire PC market, and then that makes things bad for Linux users too.

 

[hemioiler]

K, we are on the same page

BTW, I have a Powerbook G3 in my computer museum (speaking of PowerPC), @Rand has the heatspreader for it, so I can't use it until I get that (I had to buy one on e-bay). I really liked the older Apple hardware and software, they were incredibly popular in the Education space, but that never seemed to translate to consumer sales. That changed completely with the smartphone and their displacement of Blackberry. That has given them a massive leg-up here with the M-stuff, as has their holistic approach to software architecture (which I touched-on in another thread) which has delivered a consistent experience. The iPhone and iPad have successfully drawn more people into the Apple ecosystem than any previous deliberate effort, the M-series stuff is capitalizing on that, and their ability to price it reasonably, compared to their previous offerings, is only going to help them here.

The other thing, as we already touched-on, is Microsoft vibe-coding and telemetry-izing their primary product into so much of a hot mess that it is actively driving people to seek alternatives. They are actually talking about walking some of this (copilot, microsoft account...etc.) back, the feedback has been so bad. HP, Dell and Lenovo can polish up their hardware as much as they like, but if people aren't buying it because Windows has become radioactive trash, that's going to affect the entire PC market, and then that makes things bad for Linux users too.

I just need full linux support on M3+ and I'll be set!

 

[alarmguy]

because the experience of using Linux for the average person is a complete non-starter?

$600 MacBook Neo “just works” and will handle just about anything an average person needs for web/email/office. If you need more bump up to an Air. The build quality, OS experience, sound quality, battery life, screen brightness and resolution blow away any $600 pc and it’s not even close. It’s not just the raw dollars, but what you actually get for that money and the pleasure (or pain) of using it.

Well said

 

[alarmguy]

For you nerds, I could care less but it's cool to read.
Being in the Apple sphere works great for my family and I.
I used to be an Apple hater, for no reason at all, expect I thought they were too expensive.

Well, now our whole world is integrated with Apple. From watches for fitness and heath it is freaking AMAZING the health data you pull, the integration of this data across all its platforms has to be unmatched in the world. We use our watch health apps extensively. I know about 2 or more dozen health criteria about myself from my watch, from the performance of my heart, to respiration to how I sleep to monitoring everything going on with me, EVEN as I sleep it collects the data on heart respiration etc etc ...
All that data ends up in my iPhone and can be printed or shared with our doctors.

5 years ago, I shared the ECG (EKG) data from the watch, printed 20 pages out from my iPhone and took it with me, the electriphisologist and cardiologist thought it was great and it sped up a cardiac ablation to correct my heart timing.
My wife was just alerted to hypertension (high BP) by her watch and scheduled with a cardiologist for the first time, appt is in the next couple weeks.

Ok, forget all that, I said it so many times, 2 Mac mini's , 2 iPhones, an iPad, 2 Apple Watches everything just works as @hemioiler states in so many words, I am one of those "end users" all I care about is stellar build quality, cross device integration, performance and ______ (I forgot the other one! *LOL*) security? I use all the devices to my advantage so even though I am "that end user" I think a bit more than that, as I love all the data, electronics and workings. I take the time to(my wife too!) to use these devices to their potential and they monitor and do so many things its hard to learn it all. I discover new things all the time. Like what just happened to my wife, her watch suggested she contact her doctor about her blood pressure. My wife in good shape, weighs in her BMI we were shocked, so she took her BP over a weeks time, printed it out for her appt.

As far as processors? How can the typical "end user" Joe public do much better ? Not the nerds, not talking about some guys in the computer threads, just Joe Public who makes the effort to use all that is offered.
By the way... the iPhone !?!? but even so, who cares but its just a statement that the iPhone is right up there, most glaring for some that it isnt is they still dont use 120hz displays except for their "Pro" models. I get it but for me using the standard iPhones for gosh I dont know anymore, close to 10 years or more I never had the pro model so dont miss it... I might next time get a pro max for screen size. I am pissed that starting with the iPhone 17 they no longer offer the "plus" version with the larger screen size. Ill never settle for the smaller screen, its one of those things, like 120hz I guess and I agree and think sooner or later they will get on board with that. Since having a iPhone 15plus who knows, maybe the 16 plus will be the last iPhone for a long time if they only offer the larger screen in the Pro Max.

Im sure some will have a field day discrediting this? But the bottom line is, this says Joe Public will not be wanting to processing power in an iPhone.

Apple's iPhone 17 chip becomes the fastest single-core CPU in the world on PassMark, beating PC chips and Apple's own M3 Ultra — passively-cooled A19 CPU catapults past power-hungry competitors​

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-chip-catapults-past-power-hungry-competitors​

 

[dishdude]

For you nerds, I could care less but it's cool to read.

You're the top poster in every one of these threads!

 

[Jay73]

Many years ago when I was an Android user I was all Apple sucks. Now that I've been running an iPhone for many years I actually prefer it. Personal preference what ya prefer. I've gone from Android to iPhone and doubting I'll leave.

 

[nolan65]

You realize that Macbooks are overpriced hardware running Unix underneath?
"MacBooks are similar to Linux computers because both are Unix-based systems (or Unix-like) that share the same POSIX-compliant command-line structure, developer tools, and file architecture".

So why not look at a system 76 or laptops that utilize Linux for 1/2 the price?

You realize that Macbooks are overpriced hardware running Unix underneath?
"MacBooks are similar to Linux computers because both are Unix-based systems (or Unix-like) that share the same POSIX-compliant command-line structure, developer tools, and file architecture".

So why not look at a system 76 or laptops that utilize Linux for 1/2 the price?

Nah. I'll stick with what works best for me.

 

[Pew]

Nah. I'll stick with what works best for me.

This should be where the whole PC vs mac vs Linux vs android vs iOS vs windows should end.

We all know broadcom is the best anyways