Considering the move from Android to Apple.... Opinions!

My new iPhone 17 pro max frustrated me to no end. First, getting the pictures and videos off the 15 pro max was beyond frustrating. Android allows one to plug in and your computer sees the 'drive' so to speak. Click on the files (pic and vids) you want to copy and they transfer.

The iPhone won't show up as a drive, often won't be recognized by a PC and the video files are sometimes unplayable on PC. Although the video quality is excellent on the apple devices, it often suffers on a PC.

Really curious what you did here. The built in transfer app is generally seamless, whether upgrading Apple to Apple, or Android to Apple.

It’s pretty much follow the prompts on the new phone, leave them plugged in near each other and let them sync. When it’s complete the new phone is basically an identical clone of the old and you just pick it up and go.
 
Really curious what you did here. The built in transfer app is generally seamless, whether upgrading Apple to Apple, or Android to Apple.

It’s pretty much follow the prompts on the new phone, leave them plugged in near each other and let them sync. When it’s complete the new phone is basically an identical clone of the old and you just pick it up and go.
It was an absolute nightmare going from my 12 pro max to my 13 pro max, it even lost my eSIM.
 
I've been back and forth over the years.

A good Android implementation is night and day better than Apple iOS in many ways. Apple tries too hard to keep things simple and in the end, if you're trying to do anything that isn't the one way that Apple envisioned you would do something, good luck.

That said I have primarily been using an iPhone for several years and overall find it to be a better experience (despite preferring many things about Android).

At this point both are mature, stable, secure platforms and plenty of excellent Android phones that rival iPhone in terms of hardware quality. I don't think you can go wrong either way, and it's mainly personal preference.
Have you looked at any of the Linux phones? There are a couple that seem really polished. I wish the carriers would actively promote. and offer them in store.
 
Our entire household is neck deep in the Apple world. From my M4 MacBook Pro for my audio work, phones (ProMax 16 for me) Wife and daughter on ProMax 15's.Phones are really nice. The build quality is steller. Both use M3 MacBook Air.(Daughter in college, light and powerful) Apple TV, Watch ,Home Pod's. They all just work. Over the years, we have had a few device issues that typically were self inflicted. Repair is not cheap. AppleCare for most devices, although thats just another cost....We have used it for a few things, that ultimately, save a great deal of money. In my view, the security and privacy of the Apple ecosystem and the build quality, make the cost well with it.
You realize that Macbooks are overpriced hardware running Unix underneath?
"MacBooks are similar to Linux computers because both are Unix-based systems (or Unix-like) that share the same POSIX-compliant command-line structure, developer tools, and file architecture".

So why not look at a system 76 or laptops that utilize Linux for 1/2 the price?
 
because the experience of using Linux for the average person is a complete non-starter?

$600 MacBook Neo “just works” and will handle just about anything an average person needs for web/email/office. If you need more bump up to an Air. The build quality, OS experience, sound quality, battery life, screen brightness and resolution blow away any $600 pc and it’s not even close. It’s not just the raw dollars, but what you actually get for that money and the pleasure (or pain) of using it.
 
You realize that Macbooks are overpriced hardware

Not true, apple silicon is far ahead of intel/amd these days when looking at the total package; performance, cost, (battery) efficiency, build quality.

You can't find better systems than the macbook neo/air for the same price, which is why pc manufactures have been very nervous with the release of the neo.

I do agree their memory/ssd upgrades are severely gouging, but if you're sticking with civil upgrades you still won't find a better system for the money.

I only wish the m chips were properly supported on linux as I'm not a fan of OSX. But the hardware... yeah, unbeatable.
 
Not true, apple silicon is far ahead of intel/amd these days when looking at the total package; performance, cost, (battery) efficiency, build quality.

You can't find better systems than the macbook neo/air for the same price, which is why pc manufactures have been very nervous with the release of the neo.

I do agree their memory/ssd upgrades are severely gouging, but if you're sticking with civil upgrades you still won't find a better system for the money.

I only wish the m chips were properly supported on linux as I'm not a fan of OSX. But the hardware... yeah, unbeatable.
A few years ago I would have laughed at you but I went from Apple hater to daily driving an M4 MacBook Air. Do I hate a lot of things about OSX? Yes. Its window management and file management UI is HORRIBLE. And their RAM and SSD upgrade pricing WAS insane. Now that everything else from any vendor is insane given the AI-driven chip shortage the Apple prices don't look so bad. And the fact that it has all-day battery life and doesn't lose any performance when unplugged (unlike many other laptop brands) make it a winning combo.

Build quality is better, yes... but my CAPS LOCK key doesn't always work. Frustrating for a $1200 computer? Sure... but I've been too lazy to make the appointment to warranty it lol.
 
Not true, apple silicon is far ahead of intel/amd these days when looking at the total package; performance, cost, (battery) efficiency, build quality.

You can't find better systems than the macbook neo/air for the same price, which is why pc manufactures have been very nervous with the release of the neo.

I do agree their memory/ssd upgrades are severely gouging, but if you're sticking with civil upgrades you still won't find a better system for the money.

I only wish the m chips were properly supported on linux as I'm not a fan of OSX. But the hardware... yeah, unbeatable.
It depends on what you are doing with it, it's not a direct comparison with Intel/AMD because you are comparing x86-64 to ARM, which are two wholly different architectures and who do things differently.

I've ordered a few ARM-based notebooks from HP and Lenovo for our org and have been having good feedback from the end users on them, particularly in terms of battery life (which should surprise nobody). They use the Qualcomm Snapdragon X series of CPU's, which compare favorably to the Apple CPU's, giving up ground on single core performance, but generally being faster on multi-core (more performance cores).
 
It depends on what you are doing with it, it's not a direct comparison with Intel/AMD because you are comparing x86-64 to ARM, which are two wholly different architectures and who do things differently.

I've ordered a few ARM-based notebooks from HP and Lenovo for our org and have been having good feedback from the end users on them, particularly in terms of battery life (which should surprise nobody). They use the Qualcomm Snapdragon X series of CPU's, which compare favorably to the Apple CPU's, giving up ground on single core performance, but generally being faster on multi-core (more performance cores).

It mostly is a direct comparison when it comes to stuff like graphics/video editing, code compilation (java for sure) etc. If the same software doesn't exist then yes other things can come into play, but the basics; raw computation, disk speed, screen quality, graphics performance (benchmarks or games native on both platforms) etc, those are all directly comparable and the apple machines are far out in front when you then also start including build quality and price.
 
A few years ago I would have laughed at you but I went from Apple hater to daily driving an M4 MacBook Air. Do I hate a lot of things about OSX? Yes. Its window management and file management UI is HORRIBLE. And their RAM and SSD upgrade pricing WAS insane. Now that everything else from any vendor is insane given the AI-driven chip shortage the Apple prices don't look so bad. And the fact that it has all-day battery life and doesn't lose any performance when unplugged (unlike many other laptop brands) make it a winning combo.

Build quality is better, yes... but my CAPS LOCK key doesn't always work. Frustrating for a $1200 computer? Sure... but I've been too lazy to make the appointment to warranty it lol.

Yeah I'm not a fan of osx either after 2 decades of KDE.
 
It mostly is a direct comparison when it comes to stuff like graphics/video editing, code compilation (java for sure) etc. If the same software doesn't exist then yes other things can come into play, but the basics; raw computation, disk speed, screen quality, graphics performance (benchmarks or games native on both platforms) etc, those are all directly comparable and the apple machines are far out in front when you then also start including build quality and price.
I'm speaking from an architecture perspective, because we are talking about two different architectures, which excel at different things.

If we are talking about bang for buck on the system itself, yes, the Apple machines are a bargain for the performance you get, as long as you don't need to upgrade, which is an issue not exclusive to Apple.

I do think the Snapdragon machines add another dimension to the conversation though, and are of course the same architecture. I would say this is the space to watch on direct comparisons. I've been reasonably impressed with the ones I've ordered. I was able to get a couple of the early Lenovo ones for a song from my wholesaler, as a "get them into the wild" discount that was like $500 or something absurd. We are basically looking at the Smartphone->Laptop platform migration, a space that has historically been dominated by x86. IMHO, Qualcomm vs Apple in this space has the potential to be the modern Intel vs AMD and I'm very curious to see if Qualcomm can gain enough of a foothold to make this interesting.
 
Yeah I'm not a fan of osx either after 2 decades of KDE.
Hilariously, I finally caved and now just run KDE on my old Mac Pro desktop. Trying to limp along the newest OSX iterations with OpenCore just wasn't delivering the performance; it highlighted the limitations of that 16 year old hardware. But, Linux absolutely flies on it 🤷‍♂️
 
Hilariously, I finally caved and now just run KDE on my old Mac Pro desktop. Trying to limp along the newest OSX iterations with OpenCore just wasn't delivering the performance; it highlighted the limitations of that 16 year old hardware. But, Linux absolutely flies on it 🤷‍♂️
Is it the silver perforated tower? I love that chassis - best looking computer ever made. I built a sick gaming PC in one once and had everything working including power LED and the original fans etc except the Firewire ports lol if I remember right. Wish I had pics. Yes internally I had to fabricate some stuff using a 3D printer and random materials but it looked good. Sadly the whole thing fell when I was moving at some point and broke a bunch of stuff so I got mad and gave up on it.
 
because the experience of using Linux for the average person is a complete non-starter?

$600 MacBook Neo “just works” and will handle just about anything an average person needs for web/email/office. If you need more bump up to an Air. The build quality, OS experience, sound quality, battery life, screen brightness and resolution blow away any $600 pc and it’s not even close. It’s not just the raw dollars, but what you actually get for that money and the pleasure (or pain) of using it.

Ridiculous. It comes down to personal preference. I have a Pixel and a Dell XPS from 2020, both "just work". The build quality on the XPS easily matches a mac with an all aluminum build and excellent keyboard. Paid $699 for the XPS in 2020, replaced the battery last year and it hasn't skipped a beat.
 
Really curious what you did here. The built in transfer app is generally seamless, whether upgrading Apple to Apple, or Android to Apple.

It’s pretty much follow the prompts on the new phone, leave them plugged in near each other and let them sync. When it’s complete the new phone is basically an identical clone of the old and you just pick it up and go.

They're griping about how iOS devices insulate the user from the file system, not the migration to a new device.

And those media files are captured in HEIC or HEVC (h.264), which Windows may not support natively, so even if Windows will see the device as a mass storage device, support for those formats must be installed. On a Mac, Image Capture is an option for those who prefer direct access to the raw files. Or simply AirDrop them.

New device migrations are simple with restoration from an iCloud or iTunes/computer-based backup (which is much faster). Only things that need to be re-added are the cards in the Wallet.

Linux as a lay user OS? LOL.

Back to your Ford vs. Chevy debate…
 
I'm speaking from an architecture perspective, because we are talking about two different architectures, which excel at different things.

If we are talking about bang for buck on the system itself, yes, the Apple machines are a bargain for the performance you get, as long as you don't need to upgrade, which is an issue not exclusive to Apple.

I do think the Snapdragon machines add another dimension to the conversation though, and are of course the same architecture. I would say this is the space to watch on direct comparisons. I've been reasonably impressed with the ones I've ordered. I was able to get a couple of the early Lenovo ones for a song from my wholesaler, as a "get them into the wild" discount that was like $500 or something absurd. We are basically looking at the Smartphone->Laptop platform migration, a space that has historically been dominated by x86. IMHO, Qualcomm vs Apple in this space has the potential to be the modern Intel vs AMD and I'm very curious to see if Qualcomm can gain enough of a foothold to make this interesting.

The reason why Apple is dominating isn't just due to one thing; it's the chip, the bus, the unified memory, it's complete vertical integration from bottom to the top and they don't need anyone else in between. Windows pc's can't compete at this level, they don't have the chip, the motherboard (some do make their own), nor the os or the software on top. Well to be fair they don't build their own screen and probably some other bits, but they are so large/important when Apple says "Jump" even Samsung goes "how high?"

Look at the trackpad for example, I cannot use any other trackpad anymore as they're all "diving board" style and it's a pain to use (none of them "click" at the top). I think Lenovo or Dell has been experimenting with a "force touch" or whatever they call it, but even on this new macbook neo that is selling for $500, the trackpad beats anything else in its class.

Then look at the keyboard, a lot of cheaper laptops collapse in the middle of the keyboard when you're pressing on them, even the cheap macbook neo is solid like a rock. And of course the windoze machines are made of cheap plastic.

As for performance, the benchmarks consistently have m chips dominating them all. Occasionally you find a specific benchmark where latest intel chip is doing better (slightly) or in graphics with a discrete card, but these machines, as a whole for desktop use (including video production, office work, software development etc) are blistering fast, dead quiet, and run forever on a charge. Only way I can tell I have a stray process running at 100% usage is when my palms heat up, normally it runs cool to the touch. It has a fan, according to the specs, I've never heard it come on. That alone is something that is extremely rare in a high performance computing laptop. I won't say no other machine can do that, but I certainly am not aware of any.

I was never an apple guy until I was given my 16" macbook pro for work. $3400-ish CAD laptop so it wasn't cheap, but one of my co-workers has the "air" for half the price and we don't find much difference in day to day.

So basically what I'm trying to say.... in every aspect of these macbooks (or mac mini), they either hold their own or dominate vs the competition at that price. Build quality, battery life, screen, trackpad, keyboard, speakers, microphone (two often very overlooked bits in windows land) performance, quiet operation, osx (yes, not linux but 100 times better than windows)... add it all up, it's the "total package". Nobody is beating these machines when you look at the total package, all the windows machines compromise in spots, but the apple machines have no compromise other than cost if you spec them out very high. One could argue "upgradability", but like 99% of laptops are never opened up anyway.
 
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The reason why Apple is dominating isn't just due to one thing; it's the chip, the bus, the unified memory, it's complete vertical integration from bottom to the top and they don't need anyone else in between. Windows pc's can't compete at this level, they don't have the chip, the motherboard (some do make their own), nor the os or the software on top. Well to be fair they don't build their own screen and probably some other bits, but they are so large/important when Apple says "Jump" even Samsung goes "how high?"

Look at the trackpad for example, I cannot use any other trackpad anymore as they're all "diving board" style and it's a pain to use (none of them "click" at the top). I think Lenovo or Dell has been experimenting with a "force touch" or whatever they call it, but even on this new macbook neo that is selling for $500, the trackpad beats anything else in its class.

Then look at the keyboard, a lot of cheaper laptops collapse in the middle of the keyboard when you're pressing on them, even the cheap macbook neo is solid like a rock. And of course the windoze machines are made of cheap plastic.

As for performance, the benchmarks consistently have m chips dominating them all. Occasionally you find a specific benchmark where latest intel chip is doing better (slightly) or in graphics with a discrete card, but these machines, as a whole for desktop use (including video production, office work, software development etc) are blistering fast, dead quiet, and run forever on a charge. Only way I can tell I have a stray process running at 100% usage is when my palms heat up, normally it runs cool to the touch. It has a fan, according to the specs, I've never heard it come on. That alone is something that is extremely rare in a high performance computing laptop. I won't say no other machine can do that, but I certainly am not aware of any.

I was never an apple guy until I was given my 16" macbook pro for work. $3400-ish CAD laptop so it wasn't cheap, but one of my co-workers has the "air" for half the price and we don't find much difference in day to day.

So basically what I'm trying to say.... in every aspect of these macbooks (or mac mini), they either hold their own or dominate vs the competition at that price. Build quality, battery life, screen, trackpad, keyboard, speakers, microphone (two often very overlooked bits in windows land) performance, quiet operation, osx (yes, not linux but 100 times better than windows)... add it all up, it's the "total package". Nobody is beating these machines when you look at the total package, all the windows machines compromise in spots, but the apple machines have no compromise other than cost if you spec them out very high. One could argue "upgradability", but like 99% of laptops are never opened up anyway.
You DO realize that 2nd line there, I was agreeing with you, right? LOL! 🍻

But, as I said, they are still different architectures (ARM vs x86), so from a CPU perspective, just like back in the day with the PowerPC CPU's vs Intel/AMD, direct comparisons are complicated and most stuff is written for x86 still. Do you remember Windows NT for PowerPC?

From a complete platform perspective, in terms of bang for buck, as you've expounded on, they are a offering something that, in Windows land, there isn't a direct peer product for in terms of bringing all those things together: performance, battery, build quality, features, price.

What you didn't address, and I was hoping you would, are the Snapdragon offerings, which of course are also ARM-based. Just like with Android vs iPhone, with the push to take the smartphone/tablet architecture into the laptop space, I think logically, this is where the next "battle" will be. Not sure if you've touched an HP Probook recently, but:
- aluminum chassis
- solid touchpad
- no keyboard deflection (keyboard is like a Mac, upper aluminum chassis half has the keyboard adhered to it from the bottom)
- good speakers/mic

As I mentioned, the Snapdragon ones behave very similarly to the Macbook ones (which they should, given both are ARM).

I'm always ordering new hardware at work to test. There are two Air's, one M4 and one M5, an M1 was retired for the M5. The staff that have them love them for the reasons you and I agree they should. For the Windows folks, feedback on both the Lenovo and HP Snapdragon offerings are good (battery life is phenomenal for example), but then so is the feedback on the most recent AMD Ryzen and Intel offerings, though battery life isn't as good, and there is definitely fan noise. End users are less critical than we are, generally.

Right now, there's a price premium for the ARM-based PC laptops, compared to say an Air (what a reversal eh?, lol) but I suspect that this is where a lot of future growth will take place, or should. Everything that's "fighting it out" in the smartphone space translates here (Galaxy/pixel vs iPhone) and so we are naturally going to see the Qualcomm CPU's advance. Ultimately, this SHOULD translate into a better slate of more capable products for end users, and that's good for everyone.
 
You DO realize that 2nd line there, I was agreeing with you, right? LOL! 🍻
Yes I know lol

But, as I said, they are still different architectures (ARM vs x86), so from a CPU perspective, just like back in the day with the PowerPC CPU's vs Intel/AMD, direct comparisons are complicated and most stuff is written for x86 still. Do you remember Windows NT for PowerPC?
We don't need to get that far into the weeds though. The user doesn't care about RISC vs CISC or 32 bit or 64 bit. They care about how well it works for them. So direct comparisons compare the user experience, not the underlying arch. And of course there are software that runs on both platforms where the performance is measured and very cut and dry. How fast does it take to open firefox? How long does it take to render a video. How long to compile my java/web project and so on. Am I hearing the fan all day every day? Do I run out of battery life?

From a complete platform perspective, in terms of bang for buck, as you've expounded on, they are a offering something that, in Windows land, there isn't a direct peer product for in terms of bringing all those things together: performance, battery, build quality, features, price.

What you didn't address, and I was hoping you would, are the Snapdragon offerings, which of course are also ARM-based. Just like with Android vs iPhone, with the push to take the smartphone/tablet architecture into the laptop space, I think logically, this is where the next "battle" will be. Not sure if you've touched an HP Probook recently, but:
- aluminum chassis
- solid touchpad
- no keyboard deflection (keyboard is like a Mac, upper aluminum chassis half has the keyboard adhered to it from the bottom)
- good speakers/mic
They're still running windows with spyware/adware and bloat, copilot, mandatory online accounts and telemetry, windows recall (apparently not mandatory but how many turn it off) and so on 🤷‍♂️ . They have dialogs in windows that first appeared in like windows 98 era, some forms are closer to windows 8, some are newer. It's a dog pile at this point.


As I mentioned, the Snapdragon ones behave very similarly to the Macbook ones (which they should, given both are ARM).

I'm always ordering new hardware at work to test. There are two Air's, one M4 and one M5, an M1 was retired for the M5. The staff that have them love them for the reasons you and I agree they should. For the Windows folks, feedback on both the Lenovo and HP Snapdragon offerings are good (battery life is phenomenal for example), but then so is the feedback on the most recent AMD Ryzen and Intel offerings, though battery life isn't as good, and there is definitely fan noise. End users are less critical than we are, generally.

Right now, there's a price premium for the ARM-based PC laptops, compared to say an Air (what a reversal eh?, lol) but I suspect that this is where a lot of future growth will take place, or should. Everything that's "fighting it out" in the smartphone space translates here (Galaxy/pixel vs iPhone) and so we are naturally going to see the Qualcomm CPU's advance. Ultimately, this SHOULD translate into a better slate of more capable products for end users, and that's good for everyone.

So I don't think we're disagreeing, my comments started in response to the poster who said "Macbooks are overpriced hardware" which is patently false, for the reasons I've been mentioning. Looking at the complete picture, there is no better bang for the buck IMHO when you stick with their entry/moderately spec'ed machines. They do have some bad options ($1000 monitor stand 🤦‍♂️) but I'm mainly thinking of their macbooks and minis.
 
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