Connecting multiple 12&/or 14ga wires in junction

[JHZR2]

Hi,

Doing some rewiring in my basement, and have found junction boxes done one of two ways - either with all wires nicely twisted around one another, then wire nutted, or all wires aligned straight and together in a bunch, then just nutted together.

Is one way more right than the other? Id think that wires wrapped around together in a bunch would be better... then the nut just gives better connecting pressure.

When I have tried to wrap the wires together with my needlenose pliers, the pliers chew the wires all up in the grips of the plier jaws. All the old connections had wires that were nice and smooth and not a mark on them, besides where the wire nuts touched. Are standard channel-lock branded blue-handle needlenose and craftsman needlenose not the right kind to be doing wiring? Should I have some that are smooth jaw to keep the wires from getting chewed up?

Thanks!

 

[bullwinkle]

When you twist on the wire nuts, the spring inside will help keep them together, even if they're not twisted. Lining them up is a good idea, & a couple turns of electric tape (or my personal favorite-FRICTION tape) will stop them from coming apart.

 

[tom slick]

I like these for making multi-wire connections. The're made by Ideal.

What type of circuit are you combining 12 and 14 awg?

 

[brianl703]

You do not need to pre-twist wires when using wirenuts. The instructions provided with the wirenuts state this.

You do not need to tighten the wirenut to the point at which the wires start to twist together, but you can if you want.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
I like these for making multi-wire connections. The're made by Ideal.

Yea..I haven't used them yet, but I have them.

 

[brianl703]

The Wago versions of those come with Phillips Advance metal-halide ballasts. They seem to work fine.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: tom slick


What type of circuit are you combining 12 and 14 awg?


I'm rewiring old knob and tube, and the circuit went EVERYWHERE. Im splitting it up, keeping it 15A, but the feeder line from the main panel to the couple of junction boxes Ive used, Ive run 12ga. I have over 250 ft of each, so I figured the sections of wire where most current could be carried could be heavier, the others 14ga.

Overall the circuit will have lower load than the old 14ga k&t did, but since I have the heavier wire, why not use it in some spots? is this wrong?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
You do not need to pre-twist wires when using wirenuts. The instructions provided with the wirenuts state this.



I guess I was more concerned with best practice and also how they get them all twisted nicely over top of one another without chewing the wires all up, which is what my needlenose did when I tried to do same.

 

[Jim 5]

My FIL is a retired electrician and we recently wired my basement development. He would twist the copper wires together tightly with lineman's pliers then cut the twisted bunch off at the right length for the wire-nuts. The lineman's pliers do a really nice job of this because they are blunt and they have a knurled squeezing surface. You really couldn't get the wires this tight with needlenose pliers because you can't get 2-4 wires in the jaws with the tool in-line with the wires - then being able to twist the tool in line with the wires. You can do this with the lineman's pliers, then you just cut off the splayed-out tips of the wires that you grabbed in the grip of the wires.

Then just twist on the wire-nut and that connection is not coming loose no matter what.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
My FIL is a retired electrician and we recently wired my basement development. He would twist the copper wires together tightly with lineman's pliers


^ This.

Linesman pliers are thicker in the jaws so they get a better twist. You can use slip-joint pliers, they are probably 80% as wide. Generally it's hard/impossible/against code to twist more than four wires together in a bunch.

If you have craggly old wires that need retwisting, all bets are off. Best to start with all smooth straight wire if possible.

 

[JHZR2]

AAAHAAA!

Makes great sense now. Pull a little extra, get it all together then cut.

Too bad I didnt ask this earlier!

Thanks!

 

[Jim 5]

Hope this helps!

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

I guess I was more concerned with best practice and also how they get them all twisted nicely over top of one another without chewing the wires all up, which is what my needlenose did when I tried to do same.


There are wirenuts which are designed to be twisted on with a tool, like a 5/16" nut driver. Perhaps this is what you have and what was used.

I can apply enough force to a wirenut by hand to get the effect you're speaking of without pre-twisting.

The only time I pre-twist is when stranded wire is involved.

 

[JHZR2]

Jim, great pics, thanks very much!

Brian, mine are just made in USA Ideal branded ones from HD. But it sounds like both techniques are good enough.

Thanks!

 

[Rick in PA]

I've found it important not to put too many wires in a wire nut, even if the specs say it can take them. I believe the spring in the wire nut should engage every wire. If I can't achieve this, I'll use a short jumper and a second wire nut.

 

[Al]

I have wired hundreds of junction Boxes, switch boxes etc. [I jdo not claim to be a pro]. Its difficult many times to do the twisting thing....even with lineman's pliers. IMHO getting the wires properly engaged in the wirenut and twisting it as tightly as possible makes the twisting un-necessary. To each his own.

As mentioned..go with the Ideal Connectors and buy good quality receptacles that have extra holes in the back That accept # 12 wire) and you'll save yourself a lot of wirenutting grief.

If you get involved with metal boxes, make sure you make a band using electrical tape around the receptacle (over the side lug screws).

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Jim, great pics, thanks very much!

Brian, mine are just made in USA Ideal branded ones from HD. But it sounds like both techniques are good enough.

Thanks!


The Ideal Twister wirenuts can be installed with a nut driver:

I don't know of any others that can, but that's a handy feature.

If you go to the bottom of this page they have bits and wrenches for their other wirenuts:

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/

 

[JHZR2]

neat, thanks. I have the HD base model... standard "wire nut".

So here is a question for the electrical folks... electricity, or more specifically current flow is to my understanding a surface phenomenon. So the amount of current one wire can carry is based upon how much surface it has. Yet, when you look at those ideal "push in" devices, or even a wire nut, you have extremely limited surface contact to take the current from the one wire to the other. Be soft enough in terms of contact and I guess you could have arcing, but what about if the contact area of the junction is less than the surface area of any one extremely short length of wire - does the junction contact area become the limiting factor for current carrying?

Thanks!

 

[tom slick]

I have an ideal Philips screwdriver with a handle that a wire nut fits into and you can twist the heck out of it.

The push in connectors I linked to are superior to trying to twist 3 or more wires into one wire nut.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
neat, thanks. I have the HD base model... standard "wire nut".

So here is a question for the electrical folks... electricity, or more specifically current flow is to my understanding a surface phenomenon. So the amount of current one wire can carry is based upon how much surface it has. Yet, when you look at those ideal "push in" devices, or even a wire nut, you have extremely limited surface contact to take the current from the one wire to the other. Be soft enough in terms of contact and I guess you could have arcing, but what about if the contact area of the junction is less than the surface area of any one extremely short length of wire - does the junction contact area become the limiting factor for current carrying?

Thanks!


If it's physically tight you won't have arcing. The wire nut spring IMO is just meant to grip tightly and not pass all the current.

Those push in receptacles are, surprise, garbage. (They're good for hacks who want to "tap in" the middle of a wiring daisy-chain.) But look inside a plug outlet and you'll see a suprisingly small contact, like the side of a flathead screwdriver.