Conceal Carry/Workplace dilemma

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Bruce T
Absolutely do not carry a gun concealed if your workplace forbids it, or you could lose your job.

What about your vehicle? Does your company EVER search employee vehicles? Do the parked vehicles ever get broken into and have items stolen? If the answer to both questions is "No," then it's probably OK -- but use your best judgment about how strictly your company will enforce this policy if you get caught.

If the answer to either question is "Yes" or it's a hardline policy, then do not keep a gun in your vehicle. Keep the gun at home, and either go home and get it before running errands (often not practical) or proceed cautiously while unarmed. Many of us are in the exact same situation, and only have a CCW available nights and weekends.

Great post....makes the most sense, even if I don't like it.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Solo2driver
I'd keep it concealed and don't discuss it...I'd say that's how 99% of "us" get it done. I'd rather be an alive "outlaw" than a dead person if the situation became critical enough to require the use of a firearm in a defensive situation. The general rule with Concealed Carry is to do it ALWAYS.

Trust me.....I wish I could carry 100% of the time. But.....one slip on the job where somebody could catch a glimpse of my firearm or otherwise find out about it and I would be terminated. No way I'll ever bring it into my workplace. But I am hoping that I can lock it in my private vehicle so that I have it with me during my commute. I am doubting that this is allowable in my situation though. They have a zero tolerance of firearms at my place of work (except for the security folks though).

 

[expat]

I respect American's rights and beliefs, But I have to say as someone who has been a Canadian, living mainly in western Canada for 30 years, I have NEVER felt threatened (in a meaningful way) nor do I know of any of my many acquaintances that have been a victim of a violent crime (to the extent that any significant injury was involved) nor have I heard any stories of friends of friends that have had a incident(I guess, worth repeating)
Yes we do have 'nasty' areas, and places where I might feel uncomfortable. But never where my life might be in jeopardy.

Just have to say this for what it's worth.

By the Please look into that report on Quesnel B.C. (Canada's most violent city)
There are lies, Dam lies, and statistics!

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
..
Any suggestions?
...


Sure. Presuming the employer's policy is not preempted by state law, just don't park in the employer's lot - find someplace else to park.

You would still be vulnerable going from the car to your workplace, but it's better than nothing at all.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: expat
I respect American's rights and beliefs, But ... .


That's cool. Until I was a victim of a violent crime, I was never a victim of a violent crime either.

Criminals are everywhere. I was on my own property at the time.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: expat
I respect American's rights and beliefs, But I have to say as someone who has been a Canadian, living mainly in western Canada for 30 years, I have NEVER felt threatened (in a meaningful way) nor do I know of any of my many acquaintances that have been a victim of a violent crime (to the extent that any significant injury was involved) nor have I heard any stories of friends of friends that have had a incident(I guess, worth repeating)
Yes we do have 'nasty' areas, and places where I might feel uncomfortable. But never where my life might be in jeopardy.

Just have to say this for what it's worth.

By the Please look into that report on Quesnel B.C. (Canada's most violent city)
There are lies, Dam lies, and statistics!

I'm not going to argue or try and say that the U.S. and Canada have equal amounts of violent crime. My guess is that Canada IS indeed a safer place in general. We have a different culture in some respects down here....and not always better when it comes to things such as crime. But one thing we do have here as a right.....and that is to protect ones self with a firearm if the need arises. The framers thought it prudent, and so do I.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: andrewg
..
Any suggestions?
...


Sure. Presuming the employer's policy is not preempted by state law, just don't park in the employer's lot - find someplace else to park.

You would still be vulnerable going from the car to your workplace, but it's better than nothing at all.

True, and a valid point. Problem is.....crime once again. If I park anyplace away from the company lot, vandalism is rampant in the area I am employed. So.....it's a coin toss either way.

 

[bigmike]

andrew, check into your state's laws as Bill suggested. Again, another reason I love Florida is the liberal (in the TRUE sense of the term) gun laws we have.

Florida passed the “Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008."

Quote:
In addition to barring employers from preventing employees from keeping guns in their vehicles, the law also prohibits employers from the following:

* Asking employees, customers or invitees about the presence of a firearm inside a vehicle;

* Searching a vehicle to ascertain the presence of a firearm;

* Conditioning employment on whether or not the employee or prospective employee may legally possess firearms;

* Using employment agreements that prohibit an employee from keeping a legal firearm locked in his or her vehicle;

* Firing or taking other adverse action against an employee because the employee kept a legal weapon in his or her vehicle; and

* Firing or taking other adverse action against an employee for exercising his or her right of self-defense.

The law requires that the Attorney General of Florida enforce the protections of the Act but, notably, it also provides that any aggrieved employee, customer or other invitee may bring a civil action in court for violation of rights protected under the Act. If successful, the employee, customer or invitee is entitled to recover damages, court costs, and attorneys’ fees.


http://www.ogletreedeakins.com/publications/index.cfm?Fuseaction=PubDetail&publicationid=334

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/D...mp;Session=2008

On a side note, I don't believe people when they say they have never felt threatened. "Threats" come from all types of things, and I'm shocked some of you are blind to them. Must be nice to live in paradise.

 

[yaris0128]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Man, you American's really ARE paranoid, aren't you?

Seriously, you'd never hear a conversation like this in Canada - we kinda assume we are safe going about our daily life.

You don't REALLY believe this is a day-in, day out danger, do you???


lol thats so true. I never thought about needing a handgun prior to owning one but as soon as you do own one you actually start paying attention to all the people around you that seem shady. I honestly dont feel comfortable anymore without having my tokarev at my side. you never know.

 

[bingoh]

If I were in your position, I'd secure (and when I say "secure," I mean really secure like in a mounted concealed lockbox...you don't want it being stolen if you car gets broken into) your firearm in your vehicle while at work and tell nobody about it. Your employer should never know unless you need to use it, and at that point I wouldn't care what my employer thought.

 

[expat]

"On a side note, I don't believe people when they say they have never felt threatened. "Threats" come from all types of things, and I'm shocked some of you are blind to them. Must be nice to live in paradise. "

Sorry if you don't believe me, but it happens to be true.
However I did say that I have been (once or twice) in a location where I did not feel comfortable (the last time was east end of Vancouver at 1.30 am) But I try to avoid such places or move on ASAP.
If in the Bush I will carry a small Boat Horn or Bear Scare-er in case I encounter by a Bear. But I never have, even for an instant, thought that a firearm might be 'nice'

Perhaps it a case of 'Give a guy a hammer, and he'll start looking for nails'!

 

[bigmike]

I recall a story involving my great-grandmother told to me from my grandmother's point of view. Many years ago, in the era of the depression, they lived in the West Virginia hill country and owned over a 1000 acres of land. Several hundred acres were farmed by my great-grandfather, whom I've spoken of a few times. He's the one that carried his 3 grand or so life savings in his front overall pocket and his .38 in his other pocket. Banks weren't too popular in that timeframe, which is understandable.

For a good deal of time, he'd have to go into town and sell their crop and he'd leave his wife and children at home. While he was gone, my great-grandmother assumed the duties of the house, which involved keeping a double-barrel shotgun nearby for any numerous reasons one would require such a gun to be located nearby.

Just so happens that there were criminals in the 1930s - who would have ever guessed in the 'good ole days' that people would actually try to harm someone else? One night while the children were asleep, some men came onto the farm to steal food and whatever else they could easily carry off. By happenstance or planned, one decided that he would break into the house.

This is how the story of my great-grandfather needing to replace the front door begins. When he arrived at home, he questioned why there was a pumpkin sized hole in the door. Apparently, my great-grandmother decided to pull both triggers on that shotgun while she was still sitting in her rocking chair, where she had camped out each night while he was away.

I doubt she was scared much at all either. She was a Cherokee Indian and quite the lady.


In case you (or others) didn't have the time to read my cute story, just pick it up from here:
I've learned a few things in life that are universally true. One is, life is not fair. I'm sure there are alot of people that have become victims that surely didn't deserve to be so and I advocate any upper hand that they can have should be awarded to them. Statistically, I'd have to conclude that most people never have an encounter that might result into victimization. That rarely means that the opportunity wasn't afforded though. Maybe your last comment is true.

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: expat
"On a side note, I don't believe people when they say they have never felt threatened. "Threats" come from all types of things, and I'm shocked some of you are blind to them. Must be nice to live in paradise. "

Sorry if you don't believe me, but it happens to be true....!


I absolutely believe you, but it's a case of being oblivious to your surroundings and irresponsbile for abdicating your obligation to protect yourself and your loved ones. You're not alone though...there were millions who espoused the exact same philosophy in 1939 Germany.

 

[Ray Garlington]

now that post quality has reached ZERO, I am compelled to point out one thing: "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me." attrib: Woody Allen?

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: Ray Garlington
now that post quality has reached ZERO, I am compelled to point out one thing: "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me." attrib: Woody Allen?



We can't go into the negative numbers, even with a Woody Allen quote.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Originally Posted By: expat
"On a side note, I don't believe people when they say they have never felt threatened. "Threats" come from all types of things, and I'm shocked some of you are blind to them. Must be nice to live in paradise. "

Sorry if you don't believe me, but it happens to be true....!


I absolutely believe you, but it's a case of being oblivious to your surroundings and irresponsbile for abdicating your obligation to protect yourself and your loved ones. You're not alone though...there were millions who espoused the exact same philosophy in 1939 Germany.

Wow! Great post and makes the point very clearly.

 

[expat]

Oh, I'm aware of my surroundings! Prior to emigrating to Canada I lived in London, England. on two occasions I 'felt the blast from a Terrorists bomb (Irish Republican army) on the first occasion, I had just left a Pub (that had had 10lbs of Semtex planted behind a glass partition) because I felt there were a lot of solders there, and if could be a target.
Second occasion, I noticed a Bag left outside an Army recruiting office, and froze in my tracks. 5 seconds later I found myself Flat on my back and Deaf! (never did actually hear or feel anything??)
A firearm would not have helped me then, and I can not imagine a likely situation now where one would be of much use.

I think Poland had a few guns when Hitler invaded, perhaps they just didn't work well on Tanks?

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: expat
Oh, I'm aware of my surroundings! Prior to emigrating to Canada I lived in London, England. on two occasions I 'felt the blast from a Terrorists bomb (Irish Republican army) on the first occasion, I had just left a Pub (that had had 10lbs of Semtex planted behind a glass partition) because I felt there were a lot of solders there, and if could be a target.
Second occasion, I noticed a Bag left outside an Army recruiting office, and froze in my tracks. 5 seconds later I found myself Flat on my back and Deaf! (never did actually hear or feel anything??)
A firearm would not have helped me then, and I can not imagine a likely situation now where one would be of much use.

I think Poland had a few guns when Hitler invaded, perhaps they just didn't work well on Tanks?

Sounds like you have a good eye for bombing situations....but perhaps don't have the same aptitude toward more common types of violence likely to be encountered in an urban environment in North America. Besides all this....being that I am the OP of this thread, I never intended this to be a discussion about what ones beliefs are concerning firearms. My question was fairly specific and was not open to criticism.
And...how does carrying a firearm equate towards the invasion of Poland? The previous post was about Germany's own citizens being allowed to be armed. That is in relation to our founding fathers seeing the need for an armed populace...against ALL enemies. This would include an oppressive government that may decide to deny it's own citizens the rights prescribed in our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

 

[expat]

Yes, I'm sorry if this got OFF TOPIC but as you see It was suggested that Firstly "not feeling threatened" was not deemed credible, and Second that "I must be unaware of my surroundings".

I'm sure you can understand I might want to respond to that.

I should also explain, to me 'Germany 1939' means, primarily; the invasion of Poland and the start of WWII. I surmise that YOU may referring to some decree that Hitler may have made denying German citizens firearms?
I have not been able to find much solid evidence of such a law made at that time!

But I found this;
Quote:
"The 1928 law was subsequently extended in 1938 under the Third Reich (this action being the principal point in support of the contention that the Nazis were advocates of gun control). However, the Nazis were firmly in control of Germany at the time the Weapons Law of 1938 was created. Further, this law was not passed by a legislative body, but was promulgated under the dictatorial power granted Hitler in 1933. Obviously, the Nazis did not need gun control to attain power as they already (in 1938) possessed supreme and unlimited power in Germany. The only feasible argument that gun control favored the Nazis would be that the 1928 law deprived private armies of a means to defeat them. The basic flaw with this argument is that the Nazis did not seize power by force of arms, but through their success at the ballot box (and the political cunning of Hitler himself). Secondary considerations that arise are that gun ownership was not that widespread to begin with, and, even imagining such ubiquity the German people, Jews in particular, were not predisposed to violent resistance to their government."

 

[bigmike]

andrewg, I've done some minor digging and only a handful of states have an employee gun-at-work (or parking lot) law. Washington state, obviously isn't one of them, however.

Not that it hasn't been argued that local municipalities cannot enact harsher gun laws than the state, but rather it has been ruled that places of employment have rights to govern their own property as they see fit - in layman terms, if you will.

I've been an offender of drawing your thread off-topic and I apologize.

I sometimes wonder what could have happened if AA flight 11 and UA flight 175 had upright citizens with guns onboard. Even a pilot with one... but I digress. There's no convincing some people.

My advice is to forgo taking your weapon to work. If you feel threatened on their property, contact your HR or union rep (whoever necessary) and make it an issue in writing (fill out proper paperwork if needed). Explain to them with the words "this is a liability issue." Make some suggestions as well. For instance, ask questions about their security, cameras, workplace safety response, statistics, etc. Once you have made it known, now they have to accept responsibility of their eliminating your right to carry on their property.

I feel for you in this matter. I work for the state of Florida and I'm not allowed to carry nor able to store my weapon in my vehicle due to it being on public grounds. However, we have excellent security and they respond in around 20 seconds to my office.