College degrees worth extra $23k/yr in salary

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unless they claim youre overqualified, and delay you from getting a job after youve been laid-off...

Some people are perpetual scholars, to a point that is too far, save for being in academia, IMO.

JMH
 
the title of this made me laugh. when I got my BA in political science, first year out of college I made 24k six years ago. changed careers into healthcare, my first year I made 50k. it's NOT this/that college degree worth more money. it's what you major in that makes you more money
 
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IF you don't have such a priveledged oppurtunnity it's not the end of the world and the cream rises to the top regardless some just have to work harder to get there.




That is the absolute truth right there! The vast majority of college students are lazy slobs who can hardly get out of bed in the morning. Really, it's the honest to goodness truth, having gone to several colleges now.

Obviously you can't be a CPA or an advanced engineer without a degree, but at your average office job, the cream rises to the top regardless of whether one has a degree or not. However, in the same average job that essentially doesn't require a degree for specific /tehcnical knowledge, a degree indeed is worth 10s of thousand of dollars in extra salary, EVEN if the degreed person is crappier at their job than the non degreed person. That's why sooooooooo many people go online and pay to get a diploma for pete's sake!

I have a degree in accounting; was actually the top accounting student in my graduating class. LOVE the theory and "classsroom" angle of finance/accounting, but I couldn't hate being an accountant more. And boy was I bamboozled into dreaming of how much money I'd make as an average joe staff accountant. The UPS driver likely makes more than I ever could and I have no desire to sell my soul to the devil and try and rise the corporate ladder into higher positions. I've already been through kindergarten once.

At this point in my life, I would likely be better off not having gone to college as my personality just doesn't fit with the degree I have. Most people that go into accounting are the shy/no people types like myself. You'll get run over like a freight train in a professional business office if you're not an aggressive (I have other adjectives that are expletive deletive!), people person type personality.

What the ________ am I to do now?
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I'd be a thousand times better off if I'd have gone into something hands on and mechanically technical. I could still do that, but I haven't a clue where to even start and what fields are available and hot.
 
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It was worth a heck of a lot more than $23k for me. I made more in 2 years after graduating college than I did in the 10 years prior to it. This year I'll make more than I did in those first 2 years.
 
"The vast majority of college students are lazy slobs who can hardly get out of bed in the morning. Really, it's the honest to goodness truth, having gone to several colleges now."

I don't know about that. I payed my way through college, working 40+ hours a week, while carrying 18-21 hours of courses. I sometimes didn't feel like getting out of bed, but I did.
While I did see some of the types you described, they were far from being the majority, at least where and when I was going.
 
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Education is the one thing that never can be taken away from you in life. For that reason alone I believe its worth every penny.




I agree with you completely. I well remember the agony of Friday's 3pm, 3 hour Paleo lab, the headaches from hours of staring through a microscope at the remnants of some better-forgotten beastie and wondering what I was doing there.
But I also remember many things I learned, and continue to learn. Education should be a lifelong process. As long as you can pay for it.
 
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You'll get run over like a freight train in a professional business office if you're not an aggressive (I have other adjectives that are expletive deletive!), people person type personality.




Drew, you gotta work on this issue, then. I am not saying to become an a-hole but you probably need to become a better salesman for your ideas and skills. Don't think that just because you are an accountant, presenting yourself favorably is something you can forgo.
 
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"The vast majority of college students are lazy slobs who can hardly get out of bed in the morning. Really, it's the honest to goodness truth, having gone to several colleges now."

I don't know about that. I payed my way through college, working 40+ hours a week, while carrying 18-21 hours of courses. I sometimes didn't feel like getting out of bed, but I did.
While I did see some of the types you described, they were far from being the majority, at least where and when I was going.




Perhaps my perception of lazy college students came from my time at University of Colorado, Boulder. I'd say the majority fall into the aforementioned category there. There was gobs of students who were there 100% on their parents dime (aka LOADED) and they were only there for girls, drugs, and beer.
 
I think that college as a continuation of highschool is way to common. Many people are simply not ready for college, they are still viewing school as a burden rather than as a benefit.

I know I was not ready when I got out of school, and by the grace of ________, I did not get deeply in debt or married with kids before finally was ready. When I went, it was with a thankfulness that I was able to go. I was in the engineering technology program, and most of the people I knew were in the same boat as I. When I was taking classes elswhere on campus, I did see a lot of the lazy kids that felt they were burdened by "having" to go to college.

What I found that college did for me, was give me that first chance to do something in a much higher income bracket than I had been in before. My 6 years in the field is now much more valuable than the college, but I needed the college to get that first chance.

Cream indeed rises to the top, but it helps when you start out in a higher milk jug...
 
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Many people are simply not ready for college, they are still viewing school as a burden rather than as a benefit.




high school is mandatory (atleast until age 16), so it's viewed as a burden - one of those things you just have to do, against your will. Then if you want to make any kind of money after high school you need to go to college, which is then viewed as a burden - it's a requirement to survive.

teachers/counselors/whoever always tell kids "if you want a good job you have to finish high school" which is total baloney, they want you to finish high school so you have a piece of paper that verifies you know how to read and write, add and subract (which isn't always the case), you have the very basic skills needed to navigate your way through society.

you don't need a HS diploma/GED to go to college either, so if you wanted to you could skip most/all of HS theoretically.

college is weird, there seems to be 2 distinct types of students for the most part - those busting ________ to pay for it and studying hard, and those who have it handed to them (as drew mentioned) and slacking off, wasting it.
 
Cream might rise to the top, but poop floats too.

Seriously, if I had known then what I know now, I would have worked after high school, saved some money, and then considered whether to go to college—and if so, where to go and what major. I wouldn't have bothered with the one year of engineering school at Virginia Tech I did take, only to have all my financial aid fall through as it did. Indeed, if I had to do it again, I would have taken a break from sitting in a classroom after high school.

As it was, people (especially my father) were pushing me to go and take that major, though he didn't want to have to pay toward my education and later hypocritically got angry when I dropped out after those financial aid issues. You can fairly say I then looked at college as a burden instead of a benefit—not because I wanted to party and have a good time (I didn't; in fact, I'm a prime example of what can happen with the all-work-and-no-play syndrome), but because I simply needed a break from classrooms. One of my eighth-grade teachers told me years later he could tell when I was in his class that I was bored to death with school then. There are probably a lot more highly capable and bright students who look at college as a burden for these reasons than you would realize. Many of them have been pushed, pushed, pushed, and are sick of school after finishing high school, so they take the opportunity to party in college while they are away from their parents and others who pushed them to go.

And it is highly unlikely I would have bothered with engineering had I taken that break, after seeing what has happened with that field since then. Plenty of engineers are unemployed in their fields and work driving taxis or stocking shelves at Wally's World today, thanks to outsourcing and H1-B visas. They aren't earning $23K more than someone without a college degree.

There might be an average pay differential now. But mark my words, that will change as the more lucrative jobs get outsourced, and pay for college grads declines here. Then we will have a lot of people with quandaries as mentioned in my previous post. Some will indeed be worse off after making college loan payments than someone with only a high school degree who makes less but does not have that big debt load. It won't be pretty when that realization sinks in.
 
I'm not against college/degrees but...

I find it somewhat distasteful when someone is hired simply because they have a degree, even when the degree is in a field unrelated to the job, while perfectly qualified people, without degrees, are turned away with nary a second look. To me, this is just the system at work trying to make a degree appear to be more necessary/valuable than it really is.

Disclaimer: I didn't go to college.
 
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Plenty of engineers are unemployed in their fields and work driving taxis or stocking shelves at Wally's World today, thanks to outsourcing and H1-B visas.




In Virginia, a bachelor's degree related to the trade (ie, electrical engineer for electrician) and one year of experience in the trade is all that is needed to get a journeyman license.

I wouldn't waste my time stocking shelves at Wal-Mart if I were in that situation...
 
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I live in buffalo, ny. The economy is not good to say the least. I have a degree in computer science. First year out of college I made less than I did working part time during school. This year i'm on pace to make well under $20k, working at a helpdesk. I'm just trying to get a years experience in the trade so that I can get a real job.
 
A degree tells your potential employer that you have the discipline it takes to learn, cogitate, and solve problems. It shows not so much that you've learned something, but that you have the ability to learn. The fact that you've learned some stuff along the way is also a bonus. Intelligence is not so much what you know, but that you are able to learn.

What other yardstick can a potential employer use to gauge someone's intelligence?
 
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What other yardstick can a potential employer use to gauge someone's intelligence?



A test and/or interview related to the field and/or position being applied for. I, as an employer, would want to hire someone who can do the job. This doesn't necessarily equate to someone who has a paper saying that they have been trained to do the job. Having the discipline it takes to learn, cogitate, and solve problems isn't limited to those who attend college. Learning isn't limited to those who attend college. College is simply the system that we've set up to measure, and place a value on, such things. I've worked with enough stupid college graduates to know that the system is flawed from top to bottom but I don't have a degree so I can't fix it.
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I've had the opposite experience. I've had the good fortune to work in my field with some very bright graduates from local universities. In my microcosm I see few slackers.
 
"What I found that college did for me, was give me that first chance to do something in a much higher income bracket than I had been in before. My 6 years in the field is now much more valuable than the college, but I needed the college to get that first chance."

Yup,
With many jobs, you will need that piece of paper from XYZ University just to get your 'foot in the door' to a well paying job. I think alot of kids get discouraged when they graduate college and expect BIG bucks with absolutely ZERO work experience.

BTW, when my oldest sister graduated from UM law school, she had over $55,000 in school loans. But that $55K is just a drop in the bucket compared to what shes making now.
 
Yet more contrarian views, these excerpted from much longer articles on Martynemko.com. Marty Nemko is a career coach who formerly had a syndicated newspaper column.

"Sure You Should Go to College?

"By Marty Nemko

"...Even if you can get into a prestigious college, you may be wiser to skip college at least for a while. ...But you might ask, 'Why not go to college first?'

"One obvious answer is the money. At the sort of public university that readers of this article are likely to attend, the sticker price for four years of tuition, room, board, and other standard expenses averages $60,000, at a similar private college or university, $150,000. And the average student takes not four years, but 5.2 years to get their bachelor’s degree. Remember too that especially if your family is middle income, much of your financial aid will be loan, not grant. That means you must pay it back—plus interest.

"But you say, 'I keep hearing that college graduates earn much more over their lifetimes than non-graduates.' That’s one of the misleading statistics colleges foist on you. Of course, college graduates, on average, earn more. But that’s in part because the pool of the college-bound is brighter, more motivated, and have more family connections than the non-college bound. ...

"Who should consider saying no to college

"People who are impressive to others and are burned out on school. Over my lifetime, I’ve gotten to know hundreds of successful people. For some of them, a degree, especially a degree from a prestigious college, was key to their success. But other people succeeded without degrees, usually because they were impressive people: smart self-starters who were likeable so others were willing to do things for them. ...Such people also often started their own successful business. ...

"You’ve struggled your way to average grades. Are you one of those students who managed to struggle your way to a B in math but didn’t really understand many of the concepts? ...And when you took the SAT, you scored under 950?

Here are some truths that the colleges—which are businesses and want your money—don’t want you to know:

"o Of every 100 freshmen with the above profile, fewer than 25 at so-called four-year colleges will earn their bachelor’s degree, even when given six years!

"o Such students’ time on campus is often a non-stop assault to their self-esteem, from that first class when they’re already confused, to the final exam, when they experience that terror that most of us have experienced when we know we’ll do badly.

"o Even if such students defy the odds and graduate, they often fare poorly in the job market. There is an oversupply of bachelor’s degree holders. Even many strong students struggle to find a decent job. Plenty of college degree holders are folding sweaters at the Gap for $10 an hour, driving a cab, or hawking real estate. Marginal students have an even harder time.
[Emphasis added!—ekrampitzjr]

"o Students who are mainly going to college to figure out what they want to be when they grow up. College is a poor place to do that. ...Worse, most majors have little to do with careers. Most college graduates end up in careers not related to their major. ...

"But whatever you decide, make your choice based on what seems right for you rather than on what’s expected of you. So many people go through life making decisions based on what other people will think of them. ..."

------------------------------

"Degree Proliferation: Protecting Yourself from the Fallout

"By Marty Nemko

"Considering going back to school?

"In 1970, only 40% of high school graduates went to college. Today, it’s almost 70%. The percentage of people...with bachelor’s and graduate degrees has similarly skyrocketed. And the trend is accelerating, as more and more people trudge back to school to ride out the bad job market.

"The problem is that there aren’t enough jobs to go around for all these degree holders. That’s true even with a supposedly marketable degree such as a PhD. in molecular biology. In the 1980s, that Ph.D. opened doors to lots of desirable positions. By the late ‘90s, there were more PhDs than jobs, so many PhDs were forced to accept a one-year “post-doc” before being able to land a real position. Today, thousands of PhDs sit in post-docs for years waiting for a real job. ...

"What are the implications of degree proliferation for you, the job seeker?

"If you’re thinking about going back to school mainly for the piece of paper, think twice. The piece of paper will be far from a guarantor of a good job; it will be a hunting license. ...

"Advice I’d Give My Child

"Are you sure you want to accept years of no income so you can learn lots of stuff that will be irrelevant in the real world, and for the privilege, take on $100,000 in student loans in hopes of finding a $50,000 job? ..."
 
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