Cold start lifter tick
- Thread starter JHZR2
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Well if you read some of the threads here you'll notice that sound means nothing. Engine sounds and butt dyno seem to go hand in hand and are meaningless to some. With that in mind you really have nothing to worry about and nothing to repair. LOL..
That's not really the case though is it? Good luck with the diagnosis and the repair.
That's not really the case though is it? Good luck with the diagnosis and the repair.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I've tried a bunch of things - 0w oil, neutra, kreen, zmax, LM MoS2. All had some quieting behaviors, but none lasted.
So I'm just sticking with Mobil 1 10w-40.
Have you used seafoam, power foam, or any top engine cleaner up the intake? I would use half a can of seafoam wait a week then use the other half. These are all cheap things you can try before you take apart the engine looking for gremlins.
I've tried a bunch of things - 0w oil, neutra, kreen, zmax, LM MoS2. All had some quieting behaviors, but none lasted.
So I'm just sticking with Mobil 1 10w-40.
Have you used seafoam, power foam, or any top engine cleaner up the intake? I would use half a can of seafoam wait a week then use the other half. These are all cheap things you can try before you take apart the engine looking for gremlins.
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Controversial but many say M1 makes for a noisy engine. Ever consider a change to see if Pennzoil Ultra, conventional or something else is quieter?
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
When below 45F, and especially below freezing, my 91 BMW 318i has a lifter tick. Sounds like a sewing machine, and goes away after about two minutes of driving, during which I try to never go over 2000RPM.
I've tried a bunch of things - 0w oil, neutra, kreen, zmax, LM MoS2. All had some quieting behaviors, but none lasted.
So I'm just sticking with Mobil 1 10w-40.
But I have a few questions:
-I've heard lots of folks say that they've driven for years with a tick. I've also read that driving with a lifter that doesn't take the valves up properly is a recipe for a burned valve, since the valve will not be traveling its correct distance. Which is the case?
-Is it prudent to replace only one lifter (if you can find which one it is), or must you do all 16?
- How do you determine which is ticking?
-Does this job require removal of the head?
- is this job a DIY without special tools? Like remove the VC, unscrew the bearings holding the cams down, pull the cams, extract the lifters, then replace and torque down back together?
Thanks!
I know you said you've tried a 0w, but I would run a few OCI's of Mobil 1 0w40 and see if it can clean it up. That is, assuming it is just a sticking HLA, which it sounds like it probably is.
When below 45F, and especially below freezing, my 91 BMW 318i has a lifter tick. Sounds like a sewing machine, and goes away after about two minutes of driving, during which I try to never go over 2000RPM.
I've tried a bunch of things - 0w oil, neutra, kreen, zmax, LM MoS2. All had some quieting behaviors, but none lasted.
So I'm just sticking with Mobil 1 10w-40.
But I have a few questions:
-I've heard lots of folks say that they've driven for years with a tick. I've also read that driving with a lifter that doesn't take the valves up properly is a recipe for a burned valve, since the valve will not be traveling its correct distance. Which is the case?
-Is it prudent to replace only one lifter (if you can find which one it is), or must you do all 16?
- How do you determine which is ticking?
-Does this job require removal of the head?
- is this job a DIY without special tools? Like remove the VC, unscrew the bearings holding the cams down, pull the cams, extract the lifters, then replace and torque down back together?
Thanks!
I know you said you've tried a 0w, but I would run a few OCI's of Mobil 1 0w40 and see if it can clean it up. That is, assuming it is just a sticking HLA, which it sounds like it probably is.
JHZR2
Staff member
All, thanks for the replies. Really dont want to mess around with a bunch more additives or more and more oil changes that I dont think are really going to help.
The engine has seen nothing but synthetics and HDEO synthetics mainly for the last 70k, I have my doubts that another oil is going to fix it, and if I can learn something and try something new out of swapping the lifters in the position that needs it, I'll be most happy. I like a project and the ability to learn something new.
The engine has seen nothing but synthetics and HDEO synthetics mainly for the last 70k, I have my doubts that another oil is going to fix it, and if I can learn something and try something new out of swapping the lifters in the position that needs it, I'll be most happy. I like a project and the ability to learn something new.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Controversial but many say M1 makes for a noisy engine. Ever consider a change to see if Pennzoil Ultra, conventional or something else is quieter?
Ive had rotella and schaeffer's in here and it does the same. M1 is only a very recent change.
Controversial but many say M1 makes for a noisy engine. Ever consider a change to see if Pennzoil Ultra, conventional or something else is quieter?
Ive had rotella and schaeffer's in here and it does the same. M1 is only a very recent change.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Controversial but many say M1 makes for a noisy engine. Ever consider a change to see if Pennzoil Ultra, conventional or something else is quieter?
Ive had rotella and schaeffer's in here and it does the same. M1 is only a very recent change.
I'm using Mobil 1 High Mileage for oil consumption/leaking issues. Its quieter than the regular M1 on the Toyota I'm using it on. why? no idea.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Controversial but many say M1 makes for a noisy engine. Ever consider a change to see if Pennzoil Ultra, conventional or something else is quieter?
Ive had rotella and schaeffer's in here and it does the same. M1 is only a very recent change.
I'm using Mobil 1 High Mileage for oil consumption/leaking issues. Its quieter than the regular M1 on the Toyota I'm using it on. why? no idea.
JHZR2
Staff member
Im using Mobil 1 High Mileage because I wanted to try a bit more robust oil due to some consumption that I was seeing. Figured conditioning the seals wouldnt hurt either.
It is neither louder or quieter than any other oil Ive ever run.
The diff is another story. SF HDS-R is far quieter than the redline I used to run in there...
It is neither louder or quieter than any other oil Ive ever run.
The diff is another story. SF HDS-R is far quieter than the redline I used to run in there...
Quote:
Id really prefer to not risk removing both cams, but it may be more prudent for me, given my lack of surety, to do all eight.
Thing is, i still cant figure which side it is coming from!
To make matters worse, anyone familiar with the M42 knows that the injectors tick loudly when warm (even a brand new set from Bosch will do this). So, as the engine warms, you are balancing a quieting tick from the lifter with a tick that is getting louder from the injectors, which is coming from four spots, making it tougher.
There maybe a way..
Disconnecting each injector one at a time while using the stethoscope on that cyl is one way, it takes the injector noise out of the equation.
If that doesn't bring any joy..
Overnight cold engine, remove the valve cover, remove the plugs and rotate the engine by hand.
Bring each cyl up to TDC and check the clearance with a feeler gauge.
It doesn't matter what the actual number is, just fit the biggest one you can between each cam lobe and bucket.
Note the number and location for each.
Take a wooden dowel or hammer handle and try to push the adjuster down, if one pushes down easier than the others there is a good chance that's the one.
You are not trying to unseat the valve, just looking for movement in the adjuster.
Move on to the next cyl doing exactly the same.
See if one has significantly larger clearance than the others.
Another way and its very old school and messy is to run the engine cover off and listen to each one by putting a hammer handle on each one and the other end to your ear as it is in operation. You will hear the offender without a doubt.
We did it this way for years, this was the correct way to adjust mechanical lifters on some engines with exaggerated cam profiles, but boy what a mess.
Lots of cardboard down and engine degreaser afterwards, but it works like a charm.
Edit: I agree about no using more chemicals, you tried them and different oils and still have noise, chances are good you have an adjuster that's not up to snuff.
IMHO knowing when enough is enough and fixing it is key as running chemical cocktails long term isn't the best thing for the engine.
Id really prefer to not risk removing both cams, but it may be more prudent for me, given my lack of surety, to do all eight.
Thing is, i still cant figure which side it is coming from!
To make matters worse, anyone familiar with the M42 knows that the injectors tick loudly when warm (even a brand new set from Bosch will do this). So, as the engine warms, you are balancing a quieting tick from the lifter with a tick that is getting louder from the injectors, which is coming from four spots, making it tougher.
There maybe a way..
Disconnecting each injector one at a time while using the stethoscope on that cyl is one way, it takes the injector noise out of the equation.
If that doesn't bring any joy..
Overnight cold engine, remove the valve cover, remove the plugs and rotate the engine by hand.
Bring each cyl up to TDC and check the clearance with a feeler gauge.
It doesn't matter what the actual number is, just fit the biggest one you can between each cam lobe and bucket.
Note the number and location for each.
Take a wooden dowel or hammer handle and try to push the adjuster down, if one pushes down easier than the others there is a good chance that's the one.
You are not trying to unseat the valve, just looking for movement in the adjuster.
Move on to the next cyl doing exactly the same.
See if one has significantly larger clearance than the others.
Another way and its very old school and messy is to run the engine cover off and listen to each one by putting a hammer handle on each one and the other end to your ear as it is in operation. You will hear the offender without a doubt.
We did it this way for years, this was the correct way to adjust mechanical lifters on some engines with exaggerated cam profiles, but boy what a mess.
Lots of cardboard down and engine degreaser afterwards, but it works like a charm.
Edit: I agree about no using more chemicals, you tried them and different oils and still have noise, chances are good you have an adjuster that's not up to snuff.
IMHO knowing when enough is enough and fixing it is key as running chemical cocktails long term isn't the best thing for the engine.
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