Coked Rings & Oil Burning Reduction Experiments.

[Turk]

Howdy, My goal here is to have an baseline of oil burning and to attempt to reduce that oil burning by utilizing various established methods. Test Case: 1998 Saturn SC2 rare "Red Hot". Bought with 157k miles, now has 159k miles. Amount of Oil Burning: A consistent 1/2 Quart per 200-250 miles. Current Oil Being Used: Pennzoil Yellow Bottle (PYB) 5w-30 + 1 bottle of LubeGard Bio-Tech. Background: I bought this car last Fall and the owners did not know it was a rare car. It was low on oil when I bought it and had some darkened areas on the dipstick, so I knew it didn't get the best of care. That's OK, because I got the car VERY CHEAP. It had LOTS of serviceable items already replaced. Although this is a "Saturn", it is a very rare "Red Hot" package from the factory with only 657 made in 1998. I am determined to keep this car as long as possible & in the best condition as possible. It will not see road salt & will be in garage stored during the Winter. Starting the experiment: There's 2,000 miles on the Oil. I added 14 Oz. of "Kreen" to the oil yesterday (emptied what was left in the can). I have 1 more unopened can of Kreen. Am running it about 200 miles today. Things to Determine: - How long should the Kreen be in the oil to effectively give it it's due? - Kreen's label says you can add a pint to the oil every 1000 miles. Should I do that or use it "one time only" then on to another variable? Next Steps after Kreen: Don't want to do a Piston Soak, so I am trying other methods first. I was initially thinking of running Mobil 1 5w-40 Turbo Diesel Truck (TDT), (I have 30 Qts. of it...) as it has a HEAVY Additive Pack and heard it effectively reduced the oil burning in Saturns. BUT, it's high in viscosity, so I was thinking of running 2 Qts. of Pennzoil Ultra (PU) to get the viscosity down, + 2.5 Qts. M1 TDT next. Which way should I try first? Let me know your thoughts/successes/failures and we'll go from there! Turk.

 

[CharBaby]

Although I don't have any experience with KREEN and have no opinion, I certainly want to follow your experiment and updates. CB

 

[michaelluscher]

I'm following this with great interest. Not much in the way of helpful ideas unfortunately

 

[demarpaint]

Subscribed. Hopefully Trav will chime in and share how he's used Kreen in the past. IMO the longer you run the Kreen the better, just keep an eye on the dipstick, Kreen flashes off fast.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Turk

My goal here is to have a baseline of oil burning and to attempt to reduce that oil burning by utilizing various established methods. Test Case: 1998 Saturn SC2 rare "Red Hot". Bought with 157k miles, now has 159k miles. Amount of Oil Burning: A consistent 1/2 Quart per 200-250 miles. Current Oil Being Used: Pennzoil Yellow Bottle (PYB) 5w-30 + 1 bottle of LubeGard Bio-Tech.

Several thoughts: an engine using this much oil (1 quart per 500 miles) is either in bad condition wear-wise, has non-functioning rings, or possibly a bad head gasket. I assume you have checked for oil leaks, bad seals, etc. What about oil going down the valve stems? Why not approach the rings first - some kind of soak or deliberate effort to free the rings so they can do their job. If that fails - the rings are goners - you should seriously consider an engine rebuild. There are limits to what any additive can do. Decide what oil and weight you want to use. I like Mobil-1 and it's readily available, but pick one brand and weight and stick with it. Finally, try a single additive and stick with that as well. Liqui-Moly MoS2 is a good choice for oil passing the rings, but it will take 500+ miles for it to work its way through the engine and do any good. If you keep records of oil usage and drive the car in a reasonably consistent way, you might be able to avoid a rebuild.

 

[BAJA_05]

Two & a half quarts per 1000 miles, rather you than me!!

 

[spasm3]

should be interesting, but the saturns had low tension oil rings, so this might not fix it. I hope i does though.

 

[Shannow]

Is there an issue with oil return to the sump from the oil rings on these engines causing the coking ? If so, then whatever you choose/ do, the debris is going to have to head upwards, and past the compression rings to get out, until it finally gets to the point that the return ports in the pistons get to flow oil again (if ever). I personally don't think that you can control oil consumption without "excess viscosity" until you can establish a return path for the ring oil back to the sump. I have seen marked reductions in consumption using teflon additives, and do not think for a second that they are improving engine condition, just making it harder to get through. Basically, don't expect anything to help instantly (except for blocking agents), as it may be working for a long long time before you re-establish flow (if ever) through the piston ring holes. Until that point, your consumption may well be flushing absorbed contaminants out past the rings.

 

[andyd]

Judging from the miles and an engine with known troubles from a poor design. I would keep the Kreen in there. If you have a thick oil that cleans, I would use it all. Thick oil seals better. No dogs in this fight. My only knowledge about this comes from posts like this one. The problem has been attributed to insufficient drain holes behind the oil ring. If you had the pistons out why couldn't more holes be drilled in the land? You could do it on a drill press. Then re-ring with better rings

 

[SwampSurvivor]

What about a piston soak?

 

[fdcg27]

FWIU, all of the rings are located too high on the piston and get excessively hot, which leads to oil coking and sticking. Kreen might help and would be worth trying. You could be the discoverer of the miracle cure for a condition to which all real Saturn engines are subject. My understanding is that Kreen can be left in simply because the light solvents flash off quickly. Adding a pint every K would therefore just be replacing the lost Kreen, not adding to its concentration in the oil. It'll be intersting to see what your results are.

 

[Turk]

Here's a picture of the oil with 2k miles on it BEFORE I added the Kreen: Notice how dark it is already. PYB + LubeGard is working some. I run it at the top of the crosshatch and this is almost 1/2 way down (which is the absolute lowest I will run it. Question is: How long do I let the Kreen work before I see how low it is again in 200-250 miles? Should I wait 500 miles, then test?

 

[Nebroch]

Hasn't anyone destroyed their engines by driving with this "Kreen" or other cleaner in the engine oil? Similar products with similar ingredients (according to MSDSs) are sold here, but they are used with larger dose and guide says that you should never drive with them. Just idle a warm engine 30 minutes after adding cleaner in the oil, and then change the oil. People who have driven with those have ruined rod bearings, blocked oil pump screens with sludge etc.

 

[fdcg27]

The darkening could just as well be the result of blow-by as it might be of cleaning. If Kano recommends a pint of Kreen every K, I'd go with their recommendation. From what others have posted here about Kreen, it will work pretty quickly if it's going to work at all. If you see no improvement after a couple of doses of Kreen in the oil, then a piston soak might be worth a try. If Kreen added to the oil does nothing to free the rings, I doubt that any oil would. Since you have a bunch of TDT you might as well use it anyway.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

The darkening could just as well be the result of blow-by as it might be of cleaning. If Kano recommends a pint of Kreen every K, I'd go with their recommendation. From what others have posted here about Kreen, it will work pretty quickly if it's going to work at all. If you see no improvement after a couple of doses of Kreen in the oil, then a piston soak might be worth a try. If Kreen added to the oil does nothing to free the rings, I doubt that any oil would. Since you have a bunch of TDT you might as well use it anyway.

The PCV has been kept clean, BTW. I have already run a bottle of Amsoil PI in the gas 1k ago & now have 4Oz. of MMO in the Gas. Since it's Summer, I'm leaning towards the full 4.5 Qts of M1 TDT, especially since I do not want to muddy the experiment. So, 1st exp. run will be Kreen. 2nd exp. run will be M1 TDT & a ext. length NAPA Gold Filter.

 

[sicko]

I wouldn't immediately go on to the next item you test. I'd get maybe 1000 miles in between products, to give you an opportunity to see if the previous product did anything to improve consumption. Sometimes it's not immediately apparent.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: sicko

I wouldn't immediately go on to the next item you test. I'd get maybe 1000 miles in between products, to give you an opportunity to see if the previous product did anything to improve consumption. Sometimes it's not immediately apparent.

Correct. The wait, or "soak" time is one of the things I was pondering. Both for the Kreen & the M1 TDT.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Turk

Here's a picture of the oil with 2k miles on it BEFORE I added the Kreen: Notice how dark it is already.

Isn't that what detergent oil is supposed to do - holding particles in suspension? If the oil were clear amber color, then the crud is still in your engine.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: dave5358

Originally Posted By: Turk

Here's a picture of the oil with 2k miles on it BEFORE I added the Kreen: Notice how dark it is already.

Isn't that what detergent oil is supposed to do - holding particles in suspension? If the oil were clear amber color, then the crud is still in your engine.

Right..... BUT my other "low mileage, with lots of oil changes" Saturn is not that dark, even at 5k miles! This one is darker at only 2k miles.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Watching with interest. With kreen we simply followed the label instructions which recommend adding it to BOTH fuel and the sump. There is a cleaning effect for the PCV system and sometimes the back of the throttle body IME. Our fleet trucks love to gum up the PCV setup, both fixed orifice and valved types. I have run engines of various designs for 500 miles up to a full 3000 miles for a badly sludged 3.8 GM V6. Kreen does not always work but nearly always has at least a beneficial effect all the way up to a dramatic one. It flashes off pretty quickly, too. There are threads in the additive forum with details of one of my best, but for most older oil burners a can of kreen can be a cheap way to see if you just have excessive carbon and/or sludge...