Clutch change out: need new master cylinder?

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On my former truck, a '95 F150 4.9L, about two years ago at 160,000 miles, I had a new clutch and slave cylinder installed and then the pedal engaged just off the floor. There was no leakage in the hydraulics so they did not change out the master cylinder, but it would not engage in first gear when below 32 F until I drove it a while to get it warm. They shop said it would improve over time. Another shop said you have to shim the flywheel to make up for wear.

Finally I took it in and said to just put in a master cylinder and see what happens and the pedal then was fine. The mechanic looked at the old master cylinder and saw that the piston was not returning all the way back in it's bore, but was stopping about a half inch short. That apparently was fine for the old clutch, but no good for the new, thicker clutch.

Fast forward to today. I get the 2001 Ranger back from a new clutch and slave, and same thing, engaging right off the floor. Shop is trying to save me money and says that in their experience, these often improve after driving a few hundred miles or so.

Maybe some do improve. Maybe when the clutch is worn the master cylinder piston does not travel as far and the unused part of the bore gunks up. In the cases where the pedal improves with time/miles, the travel slowly increases with use (would then have to add fluid I would think), but in the cases where the pedal does not improve, like my '95 (which by the way I drove for about 10 months before getting a new master) the gunk must be too thick.

So, I'll drive the Ranger for now, it is totally driveable, just weird, and see what happens. I suspect I'll be going in for a new master cylinder before too long.

Both these trucks have the concentric slave cylinder. My '84 F150 had the slave on the outside of the bell housing and the original hydraulics went over 300,000 miles without any parts replaced, and I never even had the fluid bled. Side slave may be better or they just don't make them like they used to.
 
I had a 93 and a 95, both with the 4.9 and 5 speed. Never had to put a clutch in the 95, but I did put a clutch in the 93 and I never had to replace the master cylinder. Worked great with the new clutch.
 
Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
I had a 93 and a 95, both with the 4.9 and 5 speed. Never had to put a clutch in the 95, but I did put a clutch in the 93 and I never had to replace the master cylinder. Worked great with the new clutch.
The 95 had a clutch at 65,000 miles because the previous owner had abused it. That one worked fine, but the next one about 100,000 miles later was the problem.
 
Years ago I had an old Dodge phone company truck that needed a clutch. I replaced the clutch but didn't have the flywheel cut. The clutch grabbed 1/8 inch off the floor and no amount of mechanical adjustments available changed that. I finally took it back apart and cut the flywheel.After that it worked perfectly. Don't know if that's your problem, but I'll never not cut a flywheel again on a clutch job.,,
 
I had a similair issue I welded a 1/2 spacer to the end of the cable assembly to take up some slack.I later found out Ford makes a kit because the firewall flexes on these models its basically a plate that mounts on the firewall.My truck was a 86 F-150 300 six with manual trans.The local dealer had the kit in stock it was in the late 90's.
 
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MY firewall does not appear to be flexing, pedal pressure very light so would not cause flex. I have hydraulic line, no cable, and a pushrod into the master cylinder that appears to be non-adjustable. It passed the cold morning test at 22F this morning and did not have any problem getting into gear. Oh, and I have the 3/16" thick rubber stop removed, which gave it enough travel to work. Couple weeks or so and if no improvement, back in for master cylinder.
 
If its anything like a F150 hydraulic TOB, those are a serious pain to bleed all the air out of. Find a grumpy old man who has done hundreds of them and have it bled again.
 
Has new master cylinder now and working great. Cost was $202 installed for the new master cylinder. They bench bled it and then installed it and did the final bleed for the connection. So now I have new Sachs (ZF) master, pressure plate, disk, pilot, and release bearing, and a Power Torque slave. I should hope this all will last at least 100,000 miles (I know, the clutch disk depends on my driving style and skill).
 
I've read on another forum, namely for Hondas, that when replacing either the slave or master, should replace both at the same time, something to do with greater pressure from one or the other and eventually the newer one will cause the older one to start leaking. I don't know if the pressure thing is actually the case, however, I've experienced this on two different Hondas that I've worked on in the past; buddy and I replaced just the slave, and sure enough the master started leaking about six months later. Masters and slaves are cheap enough for hondas that I just replace both at the same time instead of waiting for one or the other to leak.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Those tough to get at slave cyls should always be replaced when doing a clutch.
And it looks like last year when they replaced the leaking slave they reused the release bearing. That is what started my recent problem as the release bearing seized and then trashed the new slave. If they had put a new release bearing last year, I would be happily cruising along for another year or two. However, I can't complain because then the clutch would likely have worn down too much and scored the flywheel.

I heard when you cut the flywheel to refinish it, it can mess up the clearances on the hydraulics. They shim flywheels for this reason, though I would think one could shim the slave at it's mount more easily.

I saw an adjustable slave/release bearing online, there was a special tool where you could adjust the clearance--nice.
 
I had a clutch replaced on a 99 Altima @ 185k miles and it was okay but MUCH better after I replaced both the master and slave cylinders...
My current Camry had it's clutch replaced @ 90k by owner1, but it didn't "take" and when the dealer took it in trade it replaced the clutch and both master and slave cylinders...

It's as smooth as silk...just like it came off the showroom floor.
 
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