Clickers, Frams, and E-cores, oh my (pics)

[Mighty HD]

Wow. Simply amazing. I'm glad I stick wtih AC Delco PF 52 and the Mobil 1 206.

In my work truck 03 F150 4x4 4.6? I drive 2500+ miles a month. 90% highway, 10% on the job site.

It idles (I sit and do paperwork/watch crews) 10+ hours a day. I was doing oil changes @ every 2000 miles due to the idle hours on the oil. The company requested that I do changes every 5,000 miles. I have been doing this. Our credit cards pay anywhere to get the oil changed. Usually I get it done @ jiffy lube. There's not a chance in **** I'd take my own there but anyways.

I can only imagine how the filter is after 5000 miles, 60+ hours a week idle time, PLUS 3 hours drive time.

Conditions are extremely hot, VERY dusty, etc. Typical roadway job site. They insist on putting in 5w-20, nothing else. I think a heavier oil should be run. Usually the oil is super black when I go to get it changed--what do you expect?

I tried to convince them to do 2000mi changes but oh well. They have put in a motor allready in this truck because the last guy didn't change the oil at all..lol

I'll see if I can get the filter from the next change. It's due soon.

 

[T-Keith]

If you have a GM car you won't have any of these problems. LubeOwner said all the problems were with filters that had bypasses.

Lubeowner, you bring up a good point, if the bypass is made of rubber like the E-core, when it hardens it would not be able to work. Silicone would be a much better material for this.

 

[Greaser]

quote:

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Originally posted by bighead:
Any chance you've cut open a Mobil 1 filter? That's what I use and I usually run 7k-8k OCI's (using Mobil 1 5w30 in both my 04 Explorer and 04 Grand Am V6). If you have and reported on it, I apologize in advance for missing it

BTW...newbie here, just joined yesterday

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I have and still use Mobil 1 filters from time to time...only have a few left then they're done due to a hard time of getting them.I allways cut open my filters and have yet to find ANYTHING wrong with the Mobil 1 filters.They are made like a tank inside and out

 

[Greaser]

quote:

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Originally posted by 99:
Keep doing what you're doing Lubeowner, it's got some people stirring about and that's going to keep poeple honest in the long run. Labs are labs and the real world is the real world....we don't live in labs. Keep the pics coming!

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YA it was getting kinda boring on the ol' filter forum lately till lubeowner posted some nasty pics

 

[wavinwayne]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hirev:

quote:

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Originally posted by wavinwayne:
Lubeowner,

Would you be willing to post the name of the lube shop/car wash/service station that you run there in Oregon? Some folks (not me) have questioned your credibility, & posting the name of your business might put that behavior to an end......that's just my $.02

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Exactly how would posting the name of his shop establish credibility?...

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I just got the feeling that some folks thought lubeowners was not being 100% honest. I felt that if he was willing to post the actual name of his business, people would be less inclined to doubt his credibility.

FWIW, I think lubeowner is providing priceless information to us all. Keep up the good work, lubeowner.

 

[wavinwayne]

quote:

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Originally posted by bighead:
Any chance you've cut open a Mobil 1 filter? That's what I use and I usually run 7k-8k OCI's....

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I cut one open a few days ago. here's a link to the disection photos: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002271

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by lubeowner:
Lets simplify this:

Clicker bypass Champion= torn media

Non-clicker Champion= Very isolated problems, seem to mainly be with the diesel filters though

Fram= Holes & torn media

Filters off of GM vehicles with block bypass= no problems3

Wix/Napa gold= No problems

Napa Silver= questionable

Purolator= No problems

Motorcraft (The Purolator built ones)= one of the best built filters for the money, period.
Especially the ones available with silicone ADBV

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Great Summary Lubeowner, but the topic said E-core, so I was anxious to see if you saw any problems with them?

From what you have posted can we assume that most of the problems you've shown are probably bypass related?

-T

 

[rcy]

lubeowner...have you had the opportunity to cut open any Mann filters, specifically those used on most current VW's (gas not diesel)?

Thanks.

 

[bighead]

Greaser,

Thanks for the info. I was just at the Autozone and happened to do a visual comparison between the Mobil 1 and an AC Delco, and the Mobil 1 was heavier and overall felt like it was, as you said, built like a tank

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waivinwayne,

Thanks for the link to the pics. That filter looked practically brand new compaired to that God awful Pennzoil filter *gag reflex*.

I did have a quick question perhaps both of you could answer. On my Grand Am (3400 V6) I had the dealer change the oil @ around 1300 miles, wanted to get the break in stuff out of there and I had a few freebies from them, so I figured, what the heck. When I looked at the paperwork, I noticed they put in 5 qts of 10w30 (it takes 4.5 qts of 5w30) and shortly there after, I heard the valves being overly noisy at startup (didnt happen before THEY changed it)

. I ran that for 3000 miles, then changed it with 5w30 Mobil 1 and slapped on a Mobil 1 filter, hoping that might help my noisy valves. It is still tickin and clickin at startup, but for about 5 seconds (maybe 10 when it's cold). Does that sound like maybe a bad ADBV in the filter? Or something more serious since it did it with the last oil and filter in it...

 

[jthorner]

quote:

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I'm glad I stick wtih AC Delco PF 52 and the Mobil 1 206

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Uh, both of those are Champion Labs products, so do not think that you are avoiding the potential problems Lubeowner is showing photos of by choosing either of those filters.

John

 

[Hirev]

quote:

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Originally posted by lubeowner:
Alto's LubeXpress, Alto's Wash-N-Vac, Six Corners Chevron/Food Mart

I am not going to post any other information on the WWW, to prove my credibility. It seems I have started a war and that was not my intention at all. Everyone if free to believe what they wish. That is what is great about our country. Pictures are worth 1000 words.

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I hope you would reconsider staying around, many of us actually like to see real world testing. Either way thanks for your information. I also could not agree anymore in that "Pictures are worth 1000 words".

 

[Hirev]

quote:

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Originally posted by wavinwayne:

FWIW, I think lubeowner is providing priceless information to us all. Keep up the good work, lubeowner.

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I agree with you.

 

[slalom44]

Lubeowner - your input, pictures and observations are greatly appreciated.

I'd like to add a few dcomments on failed filters. I've cut open several filters over the past year just to better understand them (and because I've become paranoid after having two with torn media) and and here's what I think:

None of the filters I've cut open have wavy pleats like the earlier pictures. Water/coolant contamination makes sense.

Butyl ADBVs don't harden with regular OCIs. They may not be as effective as silicone, but the ones I've had are pretty much like new after regular use.

Lubeowner gets some filters that are undoubtedly off of cars that have been neglected, and some were likely abused. If a filter design can be driven to failure, Lubeowner will likely see it. I feel that eventually any filter will fail. What's important is how long it lasts, how well it filters before failure, and how it fails.

 

[Greaser]

quote:

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Originally posted by jthorner:

quote:

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I'm glad I stick wtih AC Delco PF 52 and the Mobil 1 206

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Uh, both of those are Champion Labs products, so do not think that you are avoiding the potential problems Lubeowner is showing photos of by choosing either of those filters.

John

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True Champion Labs makes MANY filters for different brand names BUT to different specs laid out by the client.Encore filters as compared to Mobil 1 filters is like saying since DCX builds Neons then Vipers are the same.Cut open a Mobil 1 filter.After you cuss because the can is so thick you'll need pliers to get the media off the center post because that media is so fargin strong

..been there ,done that.Then I've run my finger briskly over a Napa silver's media and ripped it like brittle coffee filter material.We're all on this forum to get to the bottom of things,to get the MOST protection for our vehicles.All information is relavent,LAB and REAL world,maybe ego's are at stake and really shouldn't be,to ask someone where they live and work because you think they are basically lying is nonsense.Digest the information then YOU decide what YOU want to do..Or the moderators might call our wives saying we're not playing well with the other kids

 

[T-Keith]

But the reason he was ditching the supertech was because of the clicker bypass which the M1 has too. A better analagy would be ditching a camry and buying a ES330 because you didn't like the engine in the Camry.

-T

 

[Greaser]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
But the reason he was ditching the supertech was because of the clicker bypass which the M1 has too. A better analagy would be ditching a camry and buying a ES330 because you didn't like the engine in the Camry.

-T

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Which Mobil has the clicker...the ones I cut open had the baseplate bypass like Ford specs and the Napa Gold set-up

 

[jthorner]

Relax Greaser. My point was that breathing a sigh of relief because of using AC-Delco or Mobil 1 filters didn't make sense in the context of lubeowner's pictures and the discussion since they may share many of the same design features.

It seems like I stepped on your Mobil 1 filter toes. Sorry 'bout that.

John

 

[Greaser]

quote:

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Originally posted by jthorner:
Relax Greaser. My point was that breathing a sigh of relief because of using AC-Delco or Mobil 1 filters didn't make sense in the context of lubeowner's pictures and the discussion since they may share many of the same design features.

It seems like I stepped on your Mobil 1 filter toes. Sorry 'bout that.

John

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You got me

It's not that I use Mobil 1 filters exclusively..I use Baldwin and Napa Golds more often..it's just that the top of line Champions' filters (Mobil 1 and K&N) lets say should not be sullied with the advent of the clicker valve or the earth will tilt more on it's axis and great plauges shall engulf the earth

 

[lubeowner]

About the Mann filters that were asked about,

I cut open 3 and I think there are some pics posted in by first thrad of one. They are extremely well built and after those three I don't feel the need to examine any more. Great product, even pleat spacing, absolutely no deformation after a long OCI, and silicone ADBV.

Thanks for the kind words. I have taken a lot of time away from other things that I need to be doing to analyze these things. Yesterday we had a chance to cut a random selection of 30 filters open. I really hate to say this but lots of Champion filters had a problem with the media. Two of them had the media split from top to bottom. A few other Champs had imloded near the media-backing plate-center tube junction. I didnt notice the damage at first and then I held them up to the light and you can see right through them. It is similar to the small holes in Fram phenomenon. Again this was in the area thatthe media had been stretched to complete the circle around the center tube. Also we found a heavy duty Luber-Finer Isuzu diesel filter had come apart internally. I will post up some pics when I get a chance. The bad part is that I have now found a few non clicker filters with damaged media, and will post those pics also.

As of right now I will be switching filter lines, probably go to Wix or Purolator.

 

[Greaser]

Could the media be pulsing against the center tube holes and rubbing through to make a hole?Baldwin uses the perferated center tube (square holes punched to the inside of the tube,with-out actually removing metal)so the chance of media punctures due to pulsation against "cheese grater" type holes on the center tube are greatly reduced...just a thought