Cleaning out an engine

Status
Not open for further replies.
I would STRONGLY advise against using any kind of engine flush, such as the Gunk flush mentioned earlier. Assuming you are correct and there is some build up, if you flush it you are loosening it all at once and hoping it gets trapped by the filter before it lodges in some opening its not meant to get lodged in and where it can do serious damage.

I speak from first hand experience about sludge, and it is not in and of itself expensive. There are millions of cars on the road with it and whose owners have no idea its even there. What can, potentially be expensive is when its ignored and allowed to accumulate, or when drastic measures are resorted to such as flushes. Both are potentially expensive. Wrong approach from both ends of the spectrum.

If you are already a syn oil user, my suggestion would be to do two or three 3K OCIs with either Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra (depending on availability and what your wallet can bear). These are two high detergent synthetics that will slowly and safely remove any build up.

For my (confirmed) sludged Toyota I use Platinum with 10% MMO (which was 12 ounces for my sump size). The small amount of MMO is a cheap, safe method of helping the Platinum along as I have some significant, thick deposits that I am dealing with.

In your case MMO is purely optional, and IMHO not necessary if you go the Pennzoil Platinum / Pennzoil Ultra route for a few short OCIs. If you decide to add it, I would work out a 10% concentration using your sump size and add it just for the last 1,000 miles. With a good detergent oil like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra, MMO is strictly optional and you only need a small amount over a short interval to get the benefit of it. With the stubborn deposits I have, my use of MMO is to soften them up to help the PP remove over time. 10% is enough MMO to accomplish this.

I am not recommending MMO in your instance; only saying that if you decide to add it in, then this is the safest way to add it and all that you need to add.
-Spyder
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I would STRONGLY advise against using any kind of engine flush, such as the Gunk flush mentioned earlier. Assuming you are correct and there is some build up, if you flush it you are loosening it all at once and hoping it gets trapped by the filter before it lodges in some opening its not meant to get lodged in and where it can do serious damage.

I speak from first hand experience about sludge, and it is not in and of itself expensive. There are millions of cars on the road with it and whose owners have no idea its even there. What can, potentially be expensive is when its ignored and allowed to accumulate, or when drastic measures are resorted to such as flushes. Both are potentially expensive. Wrong approach from both ends of the spectrum.

If you are already a syn oil user, my suggestion would be to do two or three 3K OCIs with either Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra (depending on availability and what your wallet can bear). These are two high detergent synthetics that will slowly and safely remove any build up.

For my (confirmed) sludged Toyota I use Platinum with 10% MMO (which was 12 ounces for my sump size). The small amount of MMO is a cheap, safe method of helping the Platinum along as I have some significant, thick deposits that I am dealing with.

In your case MMO is purely optional, and IMHO not necessary if you go the Pennzoil Platinum / Pennzoil Ultra route for a few short OCIs. If you decide to add it, I would work out a 10% concentration using your sump size and add it just for the last 1,000 miles. With a good detergent oil like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra, MMO is strictly optional and you only need a small amount over a short interval to get the benefit of it.

-Spyder


+1

MMO and PP, or any other "Synth." MMO will do -some- cleaning, in addition. You can even take the MMO up to 20%, between 10% and 20%. You dont need to stop using it either, its not a strong solvent that can maybe mess some stuff up. MMO is a "Safe" one.
 
Can you see rocker arms, polished camshaft lobes and springs? If the valve cover leaks a little you should replace the seals and check for sludge while the v/c is off.

I checked my 99 Mercury with 187,000 miles last week end. It is very clean, not even varnished after two 5000 mile intervals using Mobil Clean 5000.
 
Originally Posted By: blue94



This engine has a baffle in the oil fill hole. Many Toyota engines do. It keeps large objects from falling in. If that's what you're seeing, it is meaningless because you're not seeing into the engine. There's no way to know what's going on based on this. Your engine could be sludged, spotless, or anything in between.

+1

It may be just sludge formation on this "baffle" or ledge. A tablespoon of oil remains on this ledge even after a full drain. In time this area will have sludge, but nothing to worry about.
 
I don't believe that a syn oil of any kind will do cleaning anywhere near as well as Auto-RX. That being said I don't really know how much deposits you have wallyuwl. Auto-RX is very gentle and won't do any harm to anything.

440Magnum I did not say he had sludge..... just that it is expensive. It sounds like the deposits probably aren't really bad. But without seeing it.......who knows?
I have used RX on my Taurus and it did wonders. Other cars I noticed nothing. Other than helping with seal leaks.
 
ARX would be far more preferable to an engine flush, but I think its overkill when there is nothing more than a suspicion that there might be sludge/deposits, and no other issues.

As the OP is already using a synthetic, most cost effective and least invasive solution is simply to switch to a high detergent syn like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra and run it for 2 or 3 short OCIs, then go back to his regular oil & OCI, unless he develops a preference for one of these and decides to stick with it.

Some problems require a little more than just switching to a high detergent oil and/or short OCIs, but this doesn't appear to be one of them.

Additives at this stage, of any kind, seem unnecessary. They have their uses, but a suspicion of what may, or may not be, some deposit build up, isn't enough to warrant their use IMHO. And being one who uses additives, as necessary, I have no axe to grind against them.

-Spyder
 
If it is varnish, don't bother.
If there is real crud deposits, then a cleaning can be beneficial in several respects.

MMO is good, but consider that it WILL thin your oil, so if you use a full qt, a qt of thicker oil should be used with it.
If you have serious cleaning to do use a full qt of MMO . Don't try and get extended oil drains times. A much shorter OCI should be used than normal.
 
I have a Sienna which has the 1MZFE 3.0L engine.
It has a baffel under the fill cap, you cannot really see anything else.
It has a rough coating that was put there at the factory......sound absorbtion is what I have read.
IF you have this, it is NOT an indication of what you have down inside the motor.

I have used AutoRX in the motor and Transmission in several vehicles, including my Sienna.
It is a good product.
However, I cannot say if you need it or not.
It won't hurt your engine to use it......but follow the instructions given on their website.
I am using Redline 5w30 oil (expensive).
 
I'm new here but after reading through this thread I have to ask if you have identified any kind of problem at all? Have you done an oil analysis, a compression check or any kind of real diagnosis work? The problem with dumping in an engine flush is that to take away the gunk, you also scrape off some of the lubrication, too. A little slime in the upper valve train is usually just condensation. It comes and goes as you operate the engine at different levels of overall heat/work. You might be tempted to keep repeating a flush thinking a little more is needed when you are chasing condensation, not a good idea. Modern oils do a good job, synthetic or otherwise. MMO is not the same product it was 20 or 30 years ago and modern engines are different, too. What ever you do to your engine oil you must proceed with caution. Slow and steady is the best policy along with some more info about what is really going on.
 
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
OCI have been about 6k miles for the past two years. About 4-5k prior to that. Engine runs fine, no consumption either.


Keep using MaxLife and cut your OCI in half. You'll get a clean engine that way.
 
Engine oil can help prevent sludge but I've never seen a regular engine oil, synthetic or otherwise, that could play catch up beyond a mild case. When dumping in a dose of MMO I've seen Fe wear take a big jump on a used oil analysis. It's hard to say exactly were it might be from but readings over a hundred or so ppm are not good when previous levels were below 50. I may not be the expert that some of you are but the only way I've been able to avoid a lot of wear particles during an attempt to clean out an engine is to use Auto-Rx. I'm a bit reluctant to post this because there are a lot of negative posts on the subject. I'm sorry but I can only go by my own experience and have no answers for some of the things I've read. If using Auto-Rx means that I'm going against the wishes of this board, let me know. I asked one of my customers if I could post some lab work and got a NO for an answer. He said that the work I do for him is paid for by him and that means no lab work posted.
 
MMO contains solvent, but nothing potent enough to up iron levels on UOA; that said, it is very thin and will thin out whatever oil its added to. How much thinning takes place depends on how much MMO is put in.

Another thing to take into account, is that as the oil itself ages it will begin to sheer. How much sheering takes place depends on the engine, the temps its driven in (and more importantly, idling in), driving style, etc. Unless the OCI is short (and maybe even then), you will see it to one degree or another. Usually not enough to drop down a full grade, but this does happen sometimes, and you can see this for yourself if you compare any VOA to different used oil analysis. In almost every UOA you will find some drop in the original cSt@100 compared to the same virgin oil sampled.

So you do have a point, but as illustrated above, a correlation between higher iron numbers in used oil analysis with MMO does not indicate that MMO caused the spike. A more likely explanation is that due to sheer effects independent of MMO, the oil thinned out over the course of the OCI; introducing MMO thinned it further, and the net result was that the oil at some point thinned to the point of lubrication failure and wear occurred.

Attributing this correlation to MMO to the extent of citing is the cause isn't quite accurate. The cause, IMHO, is the failure of the MMO user to take MMOs thinning effect into account, along with possible oil sheer and adjust the viscosity of the oil to ensure the combination doesn't comprise the ability of the oil maintain sufficient thickness to lubricate properly.

Solvents have their uses, and I use MMO in both the oil and fuel right now, but I did the research first before I used it. Its too late after the damage is done. Solvents, though useful aren't things to be trifled with.

-Spyder
 
High iron after a cleaninng with MMO?
It doesn't necessarily mean the engine is wearing more.
Particles of iron that are dislodged are also likely.
 
Do a 3K mile oci with new Pennzoil Conventional and a pint of MMO. Your engine will clean up within one or two OCI's. If its really sludged up, you may be out of luck...
 
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Do a 3K mile oci with new Pennzoil Conventional and a pint of MMO. Your engine will clean up within one or two OCI's. If its really sludged up, you may be out of luck...


Given all his OCIs have been 4-6k on Synpower, I think it highly unlikely there is anything there other than the normal varnish you should see on an engine of that vintage.

I can see some merit in a couple 3k OCIs on Pennzoil Conventional, but I'd be reluctant to add MMO if it isn't needed. If the OP insists on adding it anyway, I'd stick to one pint, max, for one OCI and just the last thousand miles of it. Then do the second with Pennzoil Conventional only, before going back to the normal regimen.

I like and use MMO when and where appropriate, but it gets recommended so often I wonder it should be called marvel miracle oil.

Its cheap, versatile, and useful. But it shouldn't be dumped into the crankcase just for the feel good placebo effect of 'doing something.' It won't clean anything if there's nothing there to clean. And varnish does not justify using MMO.

-Spyder
 
Winter is just around the corner. KY isn't exactly what I'd consider a cold place but, I do most engine clean ups over the winter.

Get a pint of MMO, your favorite oil and filter and add the MMO for your winter OCI. You'll get the cleaning benefits of the MMO, and a little bonus with easier cold starts if it should get very cold in your area. I don't know the sump size of your engine but you can add up to 20% of MMO safely.

From what you've said about maint, I doubt the engine is in need of a drastic clean up. The MMO certainly isn't going to hurt anything.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom