Cleaning out an engine

Pennzoil motor oil
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wallyuwl

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Just for the heck of it I just looked inside the oil cap of my engine. It is a 1.8L Toyota engine (in a Vibe) with 112k miles. When you take the oil cap off, there is no sludge on the surface. A bit of varnish but not bad. I took a flashlight and looked deeper, and there is definitely some gunk down there (I don't know enough about engines to know what part of the engine it is). A layer of black oil residue (sort of looks like an old cinder running track).

It has gotten a steady diet of Valvoline synthetic blend for the last 90k miles (ML blend for the past 30-35k), so I'm surprised there was much there.


What do you guys recommend to clean it out? I know some are fans of MMO, but isn't that kind of pricey? I don't know what else is out there besides that. I do plan to put in QS UD Full Synthetic next oil change, so that should help some.

Thanks for any advice.
 
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Then again sludge is very expensive........

Then again, it may not be sludge. The description is too vague- it could just be a dark stained sand-cast metal part that's perfectly normal.
 
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MMO is relatively cheap. About $3.77 a quart or 2.80 a pint at Wal-Mart.

My suggestion is this:

1. Add a pint of MMO (the small bottle - about 2.80 at Walmart) to your current oil and drive your vehicle for a week or so with it in it or take a good road trip. Basically drive it enough to give the MMO time to work.

2. Purchase a cheap oil filter such as a Supertech Filter and an engine flush such as Gunk engine flush.

3. At the time of your oil change, leave the old oil in it and install the cheap oil filter. Pour the engine flush in it and start your vehicle up and let it run for 5 to 30 minutes. Basically, whatever you're comfortable with as far as that 5 to 30 minute interval goes. I do my personal vehicles for 30 minutes.

4. I know this is obvious, but let the oil oil drain out completely (let it sit for a good while and drain until you see no drips to make sure as much as the old oil and flush drain out as you possibly can) and remove the cheap filter.

5. Install your new quality filter (Wix, Purolator, Pure One - Please do not use Fram unless it's the XG series. I'm not Fram bashing, but the regular orange Fram is overpriced for what it offers) and use a high detergent synthetic such as Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra.

6. Since you have a little bit of a build up, your oil will probably change to a darker color faster than normal during your first change due to the detergents cleaning your engine out, but should remain an amber color longer during your subsequent oil changes.

I have a Chevy Cavalier with a 2.2 (325,000 miles I may add) that had a bit of a sludge build up that I've done this on and upon letting go of my brand loyalty to another oil, doing this flush and changing over to Pennzoil, I couldn't be happier. There are now no sludge deposits on my dipstick and the varnish on my dipstick is even disappearing.

This is my 2 cents, but it worked for me.
 
No need to do anything drastic. If you are worried, you can run some Syntec 5w30 for 2 short OCI of say 3K. That should clean it just fine since it has a robust detergent pack. I dont run this oil long specifically since it is so strong apparently detergent wise. I have a 1NZ-FE 1.5 toyota engine and I ran this for a short OCI and the oil cleaned up much more actively than ANYTHING I had in there including: Mobil 1 0w-30, Mobil 1 10w30 HM, and rotella triple protection 10w30 Cj-4. To clarify, By cleaning up, I mean it got dark mahogany brown real fast. Worried, I dumped it 2k out and put a new filter on and added a fresh qt; and the oil continued to get super dark brown - fast. Is this cleaning? I would think so - either that or the oil is unstable and oxidizes quickly. I would think the former since its a supposed "premium' product. I would not run MMO in a modern engine.
 
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WOW a whole lot of go after that sludge post/information. Many engines will have varnish on them which is perfectly harmless only somewhat an eyesore to those who frequent BITOG. If you have maintained your engine based on the owners manual then you shouldn't have anything to worry about unless you have a know sludger, and I think someone would have caught it by now if you did.... Just go about your normal OCI, a spotless engine does not mean a healthy engine... and on the other end you don't want a sludge mess inside, but I think you would see some signs when draining the oil, looking under the fill cap (not sure about fill cap etc) but when looking down inside with a flashlight it seems you would see some goo sludge, do some searching on here for sludge pictures... there was a thread with a BMW if I'm not mistaken that had issues with sludge, real sludge not just a spec or some thick dark oil.
 
Yes, it was Auto-Rx I was thinking of that is expensive. I've never tried it or MMO.

When I open the cap there is no redue on the metal threads of the block. The metal surface of the internal engine just below the oil cap is stained brown, but no sludge. If I take a flash light and look down deeper in the engine (again, I don't know exactly what part of the engine this is - it almost seems like a little platform or tray) I can see what appears to be a relatively thin layer of oil residue that looks like the cobbles on an old cinder track.

When I change my oil it comes out fine and even has a bit of color left in it. No chunks of goo or even noticable dirt. OCI have been about 6k miles for the past two years. About 4-5k prior to that. Engine runs fine, no consumption either.

Does it seem like I should try MMO? Or break down and get some Auto-Rx? And if ARx, do a sludge phase or just a basic cleaning phase?

After whatever procedure I do (whether MMO as described above by qdeezie or ARx), does it matter what synthetic I use? I have some Quaker State Ultimate Durability I can use. I don't know how much better something like PP would be? I remember a discussion on here about the difference in cleaning between 4718 oils and the conclusion was that the difference between any 4718 oils (say Supertech vs PU) would be insignificant because the standard to be 4718 is super high to begin with.
 
Well, since QS is made by SOPUS, I think you will be safe. An observation of mine over the years is that SOPUS products (Shell, QS and Pennzoil) have excellent detergents.
 
Originally Posted By: qdeezie
Well, since QS is made by SOPUS, I think you will be safe. An observation of mine over the years is that SOPUS products (Shell, QS and Pennzoil) have excellent detergents.


Since you seem to know a lot about sludge (good you know what to do to fix it, bad you've had some), based on my two descriptions above would you recommend I just do the Quaker State Ultimate Durability for a full OCI and see how it looks? Then if I think it needs some cleaning in the spring do some MMO the way you described above?
 
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
When I open the cap there is no redue on the metal threads of the block. The metal surface of the internal engine just below the oil cap is stained brown, but no sludge. If I take a flash light and look down deeper in the engine (again, I don't know exactly what part of the engine this is - it almost seems like a little platform or tray) I can see what appears to be a relatively thin layer of oil residue that looks like the cobbles on an old cinder track.



This engine has a baffle in the oil fill hole. Many Toyota engines do. It keeps large objects from falling in. If that's what you're seeing, it is meaningless because you're not seeing into the engine. There's no way to know what's going on based on this. Your engine could be sludged, spotless, or anything in between.
 
LOL, unfortunately, yes I know sludge very well! It's not a bad idea to simply go with the Quaker State Ultimate Durability for a full OCI. When you change your oil, make sure your engine is at the normal operating temperature so as much of the old oil and deposits (if any) that can possibly drain actually does drain out completely. Expect for the Quaker State Ultimate Durability to change to a darker color faster than normal due to the detergents that it has in it. If you have a rather minor sludge issue, using a good oil such as Quaker State Ultimate Durability should get you where you need to be in your sludge battle.
 
Originally Posted By: blue94

This engine has a baffle in the oil fill hole. Many Toyota engines do. It keeps large objects from falling in. If that's what you're seeing, it is meaningless because you're not seeing into the engine. There's no way to know what's going on based on this. Your engine could be sludged, spotless, or anything in between.


Based on what you know about Toyota engines, is there a way to clean this?

Would taking off the valve cover be sufficient to get a look inside to see about sludge/varnish on the inside?
 
Originally Posted By: qdeezie
LOL, unfortunately, yes I know sludge very well! It's not a bad idea to simply go with the Quaker State Ultimate Durability for a full OCI. When you change your oil, make sure your engine is at the normal operating temperature so as much of the old oil and deposits (if any) that can possibly drain actually does drain out completely. Expect for the Quaker State Ultimate Durability to change to a darker color faster than normal due to the detergents that it has in it. If you have a rather minor sludge issue, using a good oil such as Quaker State Ultimate Durability should get you where you need to be in your sludge battle.


Thanks. Yeah, I always drain the oil hot. I think I might change this oil at 2500-3000 (got about 1000 on it right now), put in some MMO a week before changine it, then put in the Quaker State Ultimate Durability for a normal 6k OCI. Then I'll see how it is and see if I want to take any further steps. I don't think I have a major problem, if one at all if what I am seeing is the baffle blue talked about.
 
You'll get a lot of back and forth about aftermarket additives like MMO and AutoRx -- some strong opinions on both sides. For further reading, suggest the Oil/Fuel Additives section.

I've recently been in a position not unlike yours, and was trying to decide on a good rehabilitative regimen for an engine.

I decided on a gentle-clean approach. Since you only suspect sludge, a similar approach might suit you.

I'm doing a 10K mile set-up, changing oil and filter every 2.5K miles with 1) Pennzoil conventional; 2) Pennzoil High Mileage; 3)Pennzoil Platinum; and 4) Pennzoil Ultra.

After that, a return to 5K mile OCIs, likely with Pennzoil conventional.

A little oddball, but what I've settled on. I've never used Pennzoil products before, but was convinced by the number of loyal users here.

Good luck.
 
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