I have a 1965 ford mustang with a 200 c.i. engine with automatic trans. I suspect that the engine may have been rebuilt 6 or 7 years and roughly 10000 miles ago, but I don't know that for a fact. The odometer says 101000, but for that mater who knows if that is even right on a car this old and had lots of restoration work done. I have had it for 5 years and have been using shell conventional oil that is old stock with an SL rating. Now I am running out of it, and am wondering if the new SN oils have enough zinc (zddp) for the camshaft in the old beast. It is pure stock. I want to take excellent care of it as it is a verrrry nice show car that I plan to keep for years. It runs great, and I change the oil and filter once a year whether it needs it or not, at approximately 1500 miles, and never needs any oil added. Also, it never gets started at temps below 40 or 50 degrees, but does get highway miles in the summer when it may be well over 90 degrees.
Classic car oil
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The general consensus is that SN oils are adequate for broken-in low performance engines of the past. That's likely true IMO. Still, you have higher zinc options. Quaker State Defy is one, or an HDEO 10W30 would be another (Rotella Triple protection and T5 semi-syn are readily available and DELO and Valvoline have just begun to offer some 10W30 HDEOs more widely. There are also some ZDDP additive you can buy but I don't know too much about them. You can overdose the engine on zinc... you don't need more than you need. In reality, when you look at used oil analysis of the older oils, the ZDDP wasn't all that high. Get on Blackstone Lab's site and look at the VOAs they did on some 20-40 year oil oil.
I'd suggest QS Defy 5w30. I wouldn't use anything heavier unless you've got low oil pressure.
I'd avoid a HDEO 10w30 as they are very heavy especially on start-up.
I'd avoid a HDEO 10w30 as they are very heavy especially on start-up.
Didn't Ford recommend 6K mile intervals on those?
At a car show I went to this summer, I saw a few 6 cyl mustangs recommending 6K mile intervals.
At a car show I went to this summer, I saw a few 6 cyl mustangs recommending 6K mile intervals.
Yes, I think the original owners manual does say 6000 mile oil changes, but then it also says 6 month or whichever comes first. That is why I change it once a year regardless of miles. Some classic and antique car people say to change it twice (spring and fall) a year, even if all it does is sit all winter.
We have ran SM/SN oils in quite a few stock cam 383's and 440s and never lost a cam. Once the cam and lifters are broke in, the quality of the hardening of the cam will be about the only reason you would wipe a lobe off.
Actually I don't think the oil is that old, just some of the very last SL stuff made, that I bought up just after the SM rated oil came out.
Ok, I think that when I need more I will look for some of the newer oil that is suppose to have more zinc. Probably don't need it, but probably wouldn't hurt either. Actually forgot that they are out there, even though I had seen them in the store a while back. Haven't been oil shopping for a while as I was quite stocked up on oil for all the different vehicles.
Oh, while I am asking dumb questions, what about motorcycle or atv oil in an old car? It says it is SJ rated.
Oh, while I am asking dumb questions, what about motorcycle or atv oil in an old car? It says it is SJ rated.
If you really want more zinc, the best bet would be something like QS Defy or Rotella t5 10w30. They will have more than you will ever need and not cost near what a motorcycle oil would.
Propflux01
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I would go with an hdeo 10w30 without issues in the temps your describing. But if it ever does wipe a lobe or two, does anyone somewhere make a roller cam retro setup for that six banger?
Originally Posted By: old1
Oh, while I am asking dumb questions, what about motorcycle or atv oil in an old car? It says it is SJ rated.
Sure but it's usually only available in heavier than required oil grades and it's more expensive.
Oh, while I am asking dumb questions, what about motorcycle or atv oil in an old car? It says it is SJ rated.
Sure but it's usually only available in heavier than required oil grades and it's more expensive.
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
I would go with an hdeo 10w30 without issues in the temps your describing. But if it ever does wipe a lobe or two, does anyone somewhere make a roller cam retro setup for that six banger?
I'm sure there is a roller setup available, but would be very cost prohibitive over just a cam and lifter swap.
OP - We have a 340 small block in one of our drag cars, and we run 250lb-ish seat and 630lb open with a .600 lift cam on a solid non-roller setup. Ran 10w30 and 15w40 rotella in it for a 1 1/2 seasons, close to 200 passes. Cam came out looking great.
I would go with an hdeo 10w30 without issues in the temps your describing. But if it ever does wipe a lobe or two, does anyone somewhere make a roller cam retro setup for that six banger?
I'm sure there is a roller setup available, but would be very cost prohibitive over just a cam and lifter swap.
OP - We have a 340 small block in one of our drag cars, and we run 250lb-ish seat and 630lb open with a .600 lift cam on a solid non-roller setup. Ran 10w30 and 15w40 rotella in it for a 1 1/2 seasons, close to 200 passes. Cam came out looking great.
Originally Posted By: old1
I have a 1965 ford mustang with a 200 c.i. engine with automatic trans.... Also, it never gets started at temps below 40 or 50 degrees, but does get highway miles in the summer when it may be well over 90 degrees.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
...
I'd avoid a HDEO 10w30 as they are very heavy especially on start-up.
Despite recent rumors to the contrary, 10w30 is not obsolete! This sounds like and excellent situation for T5 10w30.
I have a 1965 ford mustang with a 200 c.i. engine with automatic trans.... Also, it never gets started at temps below 40 or 50 degrees, but does get highway miles in the summer when it may be well over 90 degrees.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
...
I'd avoid a HDEO 10w30 as they are very heavy especially on start-up.
Despite recent rumors to the contrary, 10w30 is not obsolete! This sounds like and excellent situation for T5 10w30.
If your worried about the cam put this in it.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD
Originally Posted By: old1
Yes, I think the original owners manual does say 6000 mile oil changes, but then it also says 6 month or whichever comes first. That is why I change it once a year regardless of miles. Some classic and antique car people say to change it twice (spring and fall) a year, even if all it does is sit all winter.
Good point! For some reason I thought this was a daily driver that you were putting a lot of miles on.
Rough day! haha.
I end up changing around 3000-4000 in a seldom used vehicle I have - once a year.
Yes, I think the original owners manual does say 6000 mile oil changes, but then it also says 6 month or whichever comes first. That is why I change it once a year regardless of miles. Some classic and antique car people say to change it twice (spring and fall) a year, even if all it does is sit all winter.
Good point! For some reason I thought this was a daily driver that you were putting a lot of miles on.
Rough day! haha.
I end up changing around 3000-4000 in a seldom used vehicle I have - once a year.
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Originally Posted By: old1
I have a 1965 ford mustang with a 200 c.i. engine with automatic trans.... Also, it never gets started at temps below 40 or 50 degrees, but does get highway miles in the summer when it may be well over 90 degrees.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
...
I'd avoid a HDEO 10w30 as they are very heavy especially on start-up.
Despite recent rumors to the contrary, 10w30 is not obsolete! This sounds like and excellent situation for T5 10w30.
Except that oil is considerably heavier than the PCMO 30wt of the day.
A 5w30 like QS Defy is more appropriate.
Originally Posted By: old1
I have a 1965 ford mustang with a 200 c.i. engine with automatic trans.... Also, it never gets started at temps below 40 or 50 degrees, but does get highway miles in the summer when it may be well over 90 degrees.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
...
I'd avoid a HDEO 10w30 as they are very heavy especially on start-up.
Despite recent rumors to the contrary, 10w30 is not obsolete! This sounds like and excellent situation for T5 10w30.
Except that oil is considerably heavier than the PCMO 30wt of the day.
A 5w30 like QS Defy is more appropriate.
Widman graph is not the end all to accuracy, but I double dog dare you to tell me there is any real world difference in the performance of these two oils in the context of the the OP's use:
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T5_0W-30_%28CH-4%29_%28en-US%29_TDS_v1.pdf
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007079163_201203220846.pdf
(Yes I left a '0' out and it should be 68.02 not 68.2, not going to go back and change it now)
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T5_0W-30_%28CH-4%29_%28en-US%29_TDS_v1.pdf
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007079163_201203220846.pdf
(Yes I left a '0' out and it should be 68.02 not 68.2, not going to go back and change it now)
You said it already. The accuracy isn't spot on for the graph.
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 is my recommendation.
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 is my recommendation.
It's been proven by Blackstone that oils of the mid 60s had zinc amounts comparable to today's SN oils, only when high lift solid cams became common did zinc levels start increasing... GM did offer a zinc supplement to use in their Hi-Po engines that were having cam issues...
For stock 6cyl, change oil(yes once a year is fine) and don't worry about it...
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Widman graph is not the end all to accuracy, but I double dog dare you to tell me there is any real world difference in the performance of these two oils in the context of the the OP's use:
Agreed, but this is BITOG and for the most part there is no REAL world around here...
For stock 6cyl, change oil(yes once a year is fine) and don't worry about it...
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Widman graph is not the end all to accuracy, but I double dog dare you to tell me there is any real world difference in the performance of these two oils in the context of the the OP's use:
Agreed, but this is BITOG and for the most part there is no REAL world around here...
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