CL=9???!?!?

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JHZR2

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My HP Elitebook 2560p takes DDR3 PC3-10600 memory. I have Windows 7, which I believe addresses 16 GB of memory, so Im looking to maximize it.

So I was looking at Crucial, at their memory... and it is CL=9!

I havent done a lot of computer building or keeping up on this stuff for a while, but back in the day, a latency of 3 wasnt that great, and we wanted a latency of 2.

What gives? What should I be looking for in modern memory modules?

My computer has an i7-2640M processor, FWIW.

Thanks!
 
Take a look here at this Wikipedia page you'll see the standard timing for DD3 are much different than the older standards. I remember the first time I saw the timings, it just couldn't be right, but that's how it works.

Here are the physical memory limits that Windows 7 supports. Hardware is usually the limiting factor, unless you have a W7 basic.

Wayne
 
Buying CL2 RAM is old hat, from the SDRAM days, for sure. Yeah, the latency is huge, but the way it works the bandwidth is still fantastically better and overall faster.

Lower is always better. I think CL9 at 1333MHz (10600) is pretty standard. I you can get faster RAM then that it would be a bonus, but if your hardware doesn't support it well, its moot.
 
Wow, W7 enterprise takes 192GB. Where can I find one of those in a laptop SODIMM???
 
Yes. You have to remember the clock rate is so much higher on the newer RAM standards. It actually works out to slightly less delay (measured in nanoseconds) with each iteration even through the timings are going up.
My badbutt heatsinked 1600MHz DDR3 is CL=8. Thats about the best you could do at the time. Maybe now they might've gotten another notch down but I doubt any lower is doable.
 
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You can get crazy huge desktop replacement laptops for CAD engineering that can often take up to six sticks of DDR3 for a whopping 48GB of RAM or so.

Just drop $12,000 or so and its yours, lol.
 
I would put 32GB in my desktop at work if we had hardware that supported it. Windows 7 Enterprise 64 bit is the organization's standard. But the hardware we have supports 16GB max.
 
I remember back in '97 when HP or Sun (can't remember now) sales team brought a specially designed laptop that ran Oracle on HP (or Sun) Unix to show off what Oracle apps could do, the laptop was well into the 5 digit price range. IIRC, they said about $25,000.

We were amazed that it had 80MB of RAM in it. That's Megabytes. LOL
 
SPARCbooks!

I remember those. There were some 3rd party builders too. We had one for a DoD project
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
I remember back in '97 when HP or Sun (can't remember now) sales team brought a specially designed laptop that ran Oracle on HP (or Sun) Unix to show off what Oracle apps could do, the laptop was well into the 5 digit price range. IIRC, they said about $25,000.

We were amazed that it had 80MB of RAM in it. That's Megabytes. LOL
 
You have to remember what this latency means: it is how many clock cycle of delay it takes. The same CL of 2 or 3 at 100MHz is still slower than a CL of 9 at 1333 MHz in absolute time frame. I'm sure what you care is the total performance and you would not want to slow down so much just so you can have a lower CL.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
You have to remember what this latency means: it is how many clock cycle of delay it takes. The same CL of 2 or 3 at 100MHz is still slower than a CL of 9 at 1333 MHz in absolute time frame. I'm sure what you care is the total performance and you would not want to slow down so much just so you can have a lower CL.


Right but it all propagates, right? if my processing system is capable of some multiplier of the FSB and ends up having to be idled for that number of cycles, than data thruput cuts down computing speed to 20% of what the nameplate is, due to waiting cycles. Its not how fast you can perform a calculation, its how long you have to wait to be fed...

But that's my limited insight on this. May be way off...
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
You have to remember what this latency means: it is how many clock cycle of delay it takes. The same CL of 2 or 3 at 100MHz is still slower than a CL of 9 at 1333 MHz in absolute time frame. I'm sure what you care is the total performance and you would not want to slow down so much just so you can have a lower CL.


Right but it all propagates, right? if my processing system is capable of some multiplier of the FSB and ends up having to be idled for that number of cycles, than data thruput cuts down computing speed to 20% of what the nameplate is, due to waiting cycles. Its not how fast you can perform a calculation, its how long you have to wait to be fed...

But that's my limited insight on this. May be way off...


You also need to keep in mind that DDR is double pumped and (in any of the modern iterations, at bare minimum) dual channel. And the CAS latency value is relative to the frequency that the memory runs at (clock cycles).

RAM running at 1600Mhz and a CL value of 9 is a heck of a lot faster than SDRAM running at 133Mhz with a CL value of even 2. 2 cycles at 133Mhz vs 9 cycles at 1600Mhz.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
ends up having to be idled for that number of cycles, than data thruput cuts down computing speed to 20% of what the nameplate is, due to waiting cycles. Its not how fast you can perform a calculation, its how long you have to wait to be fed...


Sort of. With huge and immensely fast L1, L2, and often L3 caches on CPU dies, the latency issue is often augmented by simply copying /more/ data at once, faster, then copying less data more readily with less throughput.

Its like saying whats faster, I can send you a four gigabyte file over my internet connection. It'll start immediately, but will take a few days. Or I can drive over to your house and give you a DVD...it will take an hour to start, but be done transferring in minutes by then.

DDR3 basically works by having the bus so "wide" that latency is a big issue for short transactions, its really not terrifically 'faster' then older RAM in a lot of ways, but when you move larger blocks of data, the bandwidth is enormous.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Right but it all propagates, right? if my processing system is capable of some multiplier of the FSB and ends up having to be idled for that number of cycles, than data thruput cuts down computing speed to 20% of what the nameplate is, due to waiting cycles. Its not how fast you can perform a calculation, its how long you have to wait to be fed...

But that's my limited insight on this. May be way off...


Remember, down to the electrons it is all about physics. You can have really really fast ram but they have to be small, because if you make it too big, your long wiring will slow it down. It is always a trade off between size and speed, and latency vs bandwidth. These design decision are all made based on the manufacturing process, not the other way around (because if your design can't be manufactured, it is useless).

To make you feel better, most of the work done in CPU is 1) recently just performed, 2) near where you are currently processing. So caching what you just used along with a chunk nearby gives you a lot of speed for very low cost. Also the reason these small and fast memory for cache is so much faster than the large and slow memory for DRAM (DDR 3 in our case), or even the super slow and super large memory for storage (NAND for SSD or SD card), is due to their manufacturing process and design differences.

Fast memory like cache usually are SRAM, basically transistors wiring in a feedback loop, so they are bulky and fast. Slower memory like DRAM are capacitor with shared charge and sense circuit, so every time you read and write you have to charge and discharge capacitors, but you only need 1 capacitor instead of 4 transistors so you save a lot of space. This is why you cannot just use one type alone, and today's system tuning their ratio makes all the differences.
 
What kinds/types of apps are you running where this actually matters? Or is it the interest of putting better memory in?
 
It was just surprising because last time I really was paying attention to specs, I was buying cl2 memory. I just want to add more memory that will support more speed in windows 7 enterprise.
 
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