Kestas
Staff member
I had a made-in-china engineer's hammer where, after a lot of use, one end mushroomed and the other end split. I took the hammer to the lab and found one end was too soft (200HB), the other end was too hard (500HB)!
Chinese Tools
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Nice! That's a small mishap...sometimes things get done the Wong way in Chinese manufacturing plants.
Though I have seen some injection and compression molding operations there that were world class. All paid for and trained via off shoring entrepreneurial corporations from Europe and the US LOL!
"In optics, price carries over anything else."
But only within a certain design, so one can sometimes get as good or better quality with a different design. Using the scope mentioned above it's a fixed 4x model, about as simple as one can get, and since range is limited and recoil isn't an issue a scope based upon those as design criteria for a centerfire can do well on rimfire.
In binoculars the expensive stuff is typically roof prism models from Europe, but well executed simpler porro prism models are the reference standard at places like Better View Desired and among people who point binoculars to stars, binoculars that typically cost a lot, lot less. Stars are unforgiving test targets.
Another example is looking at old models from Tssco (a company that has deservedly bad reputation now) as they had some excellent binoculars with high resolution, but the coatings back then aren't nearly as good as current models. Still, it seems that the polish was better in ye olden days on many optics, even if the coatings and designs are dated. I also have an old Tasco 60mm objective from a 'department store scope' that someone gave me that star tests very well, and another old 50mm Tasco that someone gave me. After adjusting the air space a bit I've been able to see shadows from it's moons moving across Jupiter, something that few fancy, really expensive spotting scopes can do as they typically can't be used up to 120x.
In summary, yes, one pays for optical quality, but one can also do as well with simpler designs that don't require higher tolerances to begin with.
But only within a certain design, so one can sometimes get as good or better quality with a different design. Using the scope mentioned above it's a fixed 4x model, about as simple as one can get, and since range is limited and recoil isn't an issue a scope based upon those as design criteria for a centerfire can do well on rimfire.
In binoculars the expensive stuff is typically roof prism models from Europe, but well executed simpler porro prism models are the reference standard at places like Better View Desired and among people who point binoculars to stars, binoculars that typically cost a lot, lot less. Stars are unforgiving test targets.
Another example is looking at old models from Tssco (a company that has deservedly bad reputation now) as they had some excellent binoculars with high resolution, but the coatings back then aren't nearly as good as current models. Still, it seems that the polish was better in ye olden days on many optics, even if the coatings and designs are dated. I also have an old Tasco 60mm objective from a 'department store scope' that someone gave me that star tests very well, and another old 50mm Tasco that someone gave me. After adjusting the air space a bit I've been able to see shadows from it's moons moving across Jupiter, something that few fancy, really expensive spotting scopes can do as they typically can't be used up to 120x.
In summary, yes, one pays for optical quality, but one can also do as well with simpler designs that don't require higher tolerances to begin with.
I buy a few china tools. Not many... but there are times when a cheap tool is appropriate.
I use China die grinders. They work as well as a name-brand, and usually last at least 5 years or so. And cost about 1/8 what you'd pay on a tool truck.
I also have a set of big angle wrenches (china), from 1 3/8" to 2". Cost me $60 about 7 years ago. I've used them pretty hard on hydraulic fittings and such... never had a problem. An equivalent set from Snap-on would push $1000 easily. So my big angle wrenches may be made in China, but they're the only ones in the shop. My fellow mechanics aren't too proud to borrow them.
Bought a China flourescent drop light from Harbor Freight a while back. Cost $15, same bulb as an expensive light. Had to tape it back together today... but it works ok.
I've bought other china tools on occasion... and have usually been disappointed with even the best ones. But I find a good one now and then.
I use China die grinders. They work as well as a name-brand, and usually last at least 5 years or so. And cost about 1/8 what you'd pay on a tool truck.
I also have a set of big angle wrenches (china), from 1 3/8" to 2". Cost me $60 about 7 years ago. I've used them pretty hard on hydraulic fittings and such... never had a problem. An equivalent set from Snap-on would push $1000 easily. So my big angle wrenches may be made in China, but they're the only ones in the shop. My fellow mechanics aren't too proud to borrow them.
Bought a China flourescent drop light from Harbor Freight a while back. Cost $15, same bulb as an expensive light. Had to tape it back together today... but it works ok.
I've bought other china tools on occasion... and have usually been disappointed with even the best ones. But I find a good one now and then.
My grandma has a saying, "You get what you pay for." As I get older, I see more and more wisdom in that.
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
"In optics, price carries over anything else."
But only within a certain design, so one can sometimes get as good or better quality with a different design. Using the scope mentioned above it's a fixed 4x model, about as simple as one can get, and since range is limited and recoil isn't an issue a scope based upon those as design criteria for a centerfire can do well on rimfire.
In binoculars the expensive stuff is typically roof prism models from Europe, but well executed simpler porro prism models are the reference standard at places like Better View Desired and among people who point binoculars to stars, binoculars that typically cost a lot, lot less. Stars are unforgiving test targets.
Another example is looking at old models from Tssco (a company that has deservedly bad reputation now) as they had some excellent binoculars with high resolution, but the coatings back then aren't nearly as good as current models. Still, it seems that the polish was better in ye olden days on many optics, even if the coatings and designs are dated. I also have an old Tasco 60mm objective from a 'department store scope' that someone gave me that star tests very well, and another old 50mm Tasco that someone gave me. After adjusting the air space a bit I've been able to see shadows from it's moons moving across Jupiter, something that few fancy, really expensive spotting scopes can do as they typically can't be used up to 120x.
In summary, yes, one pays for optical quality, but one can also do as well with simpler designs that don't require higher tolerances to begin with.
I essentially only use my 8x42's on stars. Seeing jupiter's moons through a low-power field is amazing, among other things.
"In optics, price carries over anything else."
But only within a certain design, so one can sometimes get as good or better quality with a different design. Using the scope mentioned above it's a fixed 4x model, about as simple as one can get, and since range is limited and recoil isn't an issue a scope based upon those as design criteria for a centerfire can do well on rimfire.
In binoculars the expensive stuff is typically roof prism models from Europe, but well executed simpler porro prism models are the reference standard at places like Better View Desired and among people who point binoculars to stars, binoculars that typically cost a lot, lot less. Stars are unforgiving test targets.
Another example is looking at old models from Tssco (a company that has deservedly bad reputation now) as they had some excellent binoculars with high resolution, but the coatings back then aren't nearly as good as current models. Still, it seems that the polish was better in ye olden days on many optics, even if the coatings and designs are dated. I also have an old Tasco 60mm objective from a 'department store scope' that someone gave me that star tests very well, and another old 50mm Tasco that someone gave me. After adjusting the air space a bit I've been able to see shadows from it's moons moving across Jupiter, something that few fancy, really expensive spotting scopes can do as they typically can't be used up to 120x.
In summary, yes, one pays for optical quality, but one can also do as well with simpler designs that don't require higher tolerances to begin with.
I essentially only use my 8x42's on stars. Seeing jupiter's moons through a low-power field is amazing, among other things.
Originally Posted By: pickled
If you are good at reverse engineering/fabricating you can make some of the junky stuff function like the real high dollar tools. I find it a fun personal challenge to see what the Chinese engineers missed in their design analysis. For instance weld box tubing to a HF bead roller to keep it from flexing and voila it works outstanding...otherwise it's a paper weight! Heat treat/quench their pullers and they work for you for a while. With some of these products you have to almost do a defect/rework analysis to really figure out if they are, in fact, cheap. I can attest to their $8.99 heat guns working for about 11 hours of time (MBTF) before they burn up (I abuse them in my coffee roasting process).
I was wondering how long that cheap heat gun I got would last. Though didn't really care as it cost me 9 bucks and saved me a couple hundred. I used it to rework the solder on the main board of an ibm t42.
If you are good at reverse engineering/fabricating you can make some of the junky stuff function like the real high dollar tools. I find it a fun personal challenge to see what the Chinese engineers missed in their design analysis. For instance weld box tubing to a HF bead roller to keep it from flexing and voila it works outstanding...otherwise it's a paper weight! Heat treat/quench their pullers and they work for you for a while. With some of these products you have to almost do a defect/rework analysis to really figure out if they are, in fact, cheap. I can attest to their $8.99 heat guns working for about 11 hours of time (MBTF) before they burn up (I abuse them in my coffee roasting process).
I was wondering how long that cheap heat gun I got would last. Though didn't really care as it cost me 9 bucks and saved me a couple hundred. I used it to rework the solder on the main board of an ibm t42.
Just ask for the $3 extended warranty when you buy it! I take mine in reeking of roasted coffee and filled with bean detritus and they are like, "Ok go grab another one". I've went through 5 so far.
Originally Posted By: pickled
Just ask for the $3 extended warranty when you buy it! I take mine in reeking of roasted coffee and filled with bean detritus and they are like, "Ok go grab another one". I've went through 5 so far.
Roasting coffee rocks. My girlfriend used to be a bean roaster at a local coffee shop. It got to the point where her car smelled like coffee, because the aroma was on her so much after work. Mmm, coffee.
Just ask for the $3 extended warranty when you buy it! I take mine in reeking of roasted coffee and filled with bean detritus and they are like, "Ok go grab another one". I've went through 5 so far.
Roasting coffee rocks. My girlfriend used to be a bean roaster at a local coffee shop. It got to the point where her car smelled like coffee, because the aroma was on her so much after work. Mmm, coffee.
Pickled ,you need to build a Stir Crazy rig to roast coffee in !
Yeah...it's fun, quite cost effective and the aroma definitely sticks to you. The darker you go with the roast the more volatile oils you will get into the air that stick with you. It's funny how many people come walking up to my garage door when I'm roasting...it's like they just follow their nose. I dig women who smell like fresh roasted coffee
!
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I bought 2 Soldering irons from HF. They worked for a few minutes then melted the tips. I guess a good one will regulate the voltage just enough to keep the tip hot but the low end ones just keep getting hotter and hotter?
I replaced them with a good one from the Cornwell truck and it's been a great tool.
I replaced them with a good one from the Cornwell truck and it's been a great tool.
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Originally Posted By: Chris142
I bought 2 Soldering irons from HF. They worked for a few minutes then melted the tips. I guess a good one will regulate the voltage just enough to keep the tip hot but the low end ones just keep getting hotter and hotter?
A soldering iron without thermistor (PTC)?
I bought 2 Soldering irons from HF. They worked for a few minutes then melted the tips. I guess a good one will regulate the voltage just enough to keep the tip hot but the low end ones just keep getting hotter and hotter?
A soldering iron without thermistor (PTC)?
Originally Posted By: Kestas
One has to wonder how they were able to put a man into orbit!
It wasn't because of the stuff that they sell to the stupid people in the United States.
One has to wonder how they were able to put a man into orbit!
It wasn't because of the stuff that they sell to the stupid people in the United States.
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Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
This thread alone, much less testimonials from friends and coworkers, makes it clear that buying tools from HF is just a gamble on false economy, as it's obvious that's it's largely just a dumping ground for Chinese junk.
I bought an excellent anvil at HF.
This thread alone, much less testimonials from friends and coworkers, makes it clear that buying tools from HF is just a gamble on false economy, as it's obvious that's it's largely just a dumping ground for Chinese junk.
I bought an excellent anvil at HF.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
This thread alone, much less testimonials from friends and coworkers, makes it clear that buying tools from HF is just a gamble on false economy, as it's obvious that's it's largely just a dumping ground for Chinese junk.
I bought an excellent anvil at HF.
Glad you've now got someting to peck on!
Bob
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
This thread alone, much less testimonials from friends and coworkers, makes it clear that buying tools from HF is just a gamble on false economy, as it's obvious that's it's largely just a dumping ground for Chinese junk.
I bought an excellent anvil at HF.
Glad you've now got someting to peck on!
Bob
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
This thread alone, much less testimonials from friends and coworkers, makes it clear that buying tools from HF is just a gamble on false economy, as it's obvious that's it's largely just a dumping ground for Chinese junk.
I bought an excellent anvil at HF.
I bet it really isn't a good anvil. There is a difference in the steel that is used in anvils. My wifes and daughters horses farrier can tell and has proven it to me.
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
This thread alone, much less testimonials from friends and coworkers, makes it clear that buying tools from HF is just a gamble on false economy, as it's obvious that's it's largely just a dumping ground for Chinese junk.
I bought an excellent anvil at HF.
I bet it really isn't a good anvil. There is a difference in the steel that is used in anvils. My wifes and daughters horses farrier can tell and has proven it to me.
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I chooser lesser of two anvils. All anvils die eventually.
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