Agree, but my struggle is the China supply chain components.
Far worse, IMO, there is the R&D and Engineering. Ask Porsche where their's gets done...
Chinese EV Thoughts? Curious on more technical info
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Far worse, IMO, there is the R&D and Engineering. Ask Porsche where their's gets done...
It's a powerhouse of innovation in China now. All our major companies sold their development to China to reduce costs and now we've lost control of it. Nothing like outsourcing!
I am really curious where does Porsche get theirs done? Not what you have read but proof.
I'm pretty sure this is what he was referring to.
https://www.reuters.com/business/re...re-shanghai-local-government-says-2025-05-30/
Porsche (PSHG_p.DE) struck a deal on Friday to set up its China research and development centre in Shanghai's Jiading district, according to a local government statement.
The local government statement is sure as @#$% the authority. Clown show to appease the locals. I’m sure Zuffenhausen is not closing their shop.
I doubt it'll close either. No different than any other company researching and building in other countries. Ever major company does it. It is what it is. It's still doing research in China.
It’s a problem of our own making and our own ignorance. When China was doing everything they could to own the majority of the rare earth production, and bought up everything they could in Africa, we cheered them on because cheap materials were more important then the obvious consequence of dealing with a regime that hates us.
Now all of the sudden, all these so called experts are surprised there might be shortages or price fixing.
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Weissach and Shanghai, among other locations.
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Most critical researches are never done in China by a still reputable companies. Nobody would outsource their top secret to China unless they are already well behind and the company is already almost dead.
I used to work with something that Qualcomm supply us. We were allowed to share the commodity everyone can build it low cost stuff to the China team so they can help with the boring stuff, but the critical stuff they want everything in the US done by someone with their own clearance (that's US citizenship and a certain salary level, or a US university degree, etc). Basically if something is slipped to China they will sue us into bankruptcy kind of deal. We comply, we also do the same and only send the low cost who cares everyone including Bangladesh can do it kind of stuff to China as well.
The critical stuff stays in the headquarter country, always. Unless everyone already knows how to do it and you are not even worth stealing anyways.
However, you cannot prevent a citizen intentionally sell secret to a foreign company. I think a Toshiba employee in Japan got arrested once selling to SK Hynix. That is hard to prevent.
I used to work with something that Qualcomm supply us. We were allowed to share the commodity everyone can build it low cost stuff to the China team so they can help with the boring stuff, but the critical stuff they want everything in the US done by someone with their own clearance (that's US citizenship and a certain salary level, or a US university degree, etc). Basically if something is slipped to China they will sue us into bankruptcy kind of deal. We comply, we also do the same and only send the low cost who cares everyone including Bangladesh can do it kind of stuff to China as well.
The critical stuff stays in the headquarter country, always. Unless everyone already knows how to do it and you are not even worth stealing anyways.
However, you cannot prevent a citizen intentionally sell secret to a foreign company. I think a Toshiba employee in Japan got arrested once selling to SK Hynix. That is hard to prevent.
this came in my youtube feed today. It's someone who bought a 238k miles chinese ev that was used as a taxi in London. I don't want to lead anyone on, so if you want to know what to expect watch the video. It needs some love, but nothing outrageous.
The original owner didn't replace any parts, not even brake pads.
The original owner didn't replace any parts, not even brake pads.
I've seen some pretty interesting stuff regarding secret military technologies. Don't recall the details, but there's one defense technology where one leading researcher is at a US university and was originally from China. I think there was an video on it on YouTube, and of course there were comments. Some were questions about whether she could be trusted. Others not that she would betray those secrets willingly, but whether or not she could somehow be coerced into providing information about it to the Chinese government. And then there were the Chinese netizens (possibly on VPN) talking as if it were her patriotic duty to the motherland to provide as much information as she could to the Chinese government.
Others were more in the line of needing to protect her safety.
It's a complicated issue. But I recall something attributed to Zhou Enlai, that "overseas Chinese" who become citizens or who merely have Chinese ancestry should be loyal to their own countries the same as Chinese in China are loyal to their country.
Zhou Enlai can say whatever he wants, just like Putin can say whatever he wants about Russian who already immigrated to the US and their children should blah blah blah. These CCP monarches' children are very often in the US because if their power struggle fail their families are safe from each other if they are in the US, they trust the US more than they trust themselves, how ironic.
It is a dilemma for sure on whether to trust someone. What if US did not trust Albert Einstein and other German scientists and engineers who helped build the atomic bomb after they were captured by the Allied? What if Manhattan Project wanted to use all US citizen only and German build the atomic bomb first? Almost all of the current civilian encryption technologies are developed in Israel because US have a very restrictive export ban, and that forced everyone to do that in Israel and export everywhere on earth. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just the reality on the ground today.
What I also try to emphasize is, today most cutting edge tech is still developed in the US (and very likely with a 40% Chinese 40% Indian 20% everywhere else including US citizen staff) instead of outsourced to China.
It is a dilemma for sure on whether to trust someone. What if US did not trust Albert Einstein and other German scientists and engineers who helped build the atomic bomb after they were captured by the Allied? What if Manhattan Project wanted to use all US citizen only and German build the atomic bomb first? Almost all of the current civilian encryption technologies are developed in Israel because US have a very restrictive export ban, and that forced everyone to do that in Israel and export everywhere on earth. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just the reality on the ground today.
What I also try to emphasize is, today most cutting edge tech is still developed in the US (and very likely with a 40% Chinese 40% Indian 20% everywhere else including US citizen staff) instead of outsourced to China.
I trust what I see.
Statewide representation, support, a robust parts network, short term and long term tests by known western media and 3rd parties.
Hot weather testing, cold weather testing.
Bjorn Nyland in Norway tests many of these cars and I havent seen anything to be envious of, for that matter they don't seem to be able to make a car that doesn't overheat its battery pack when high speed charging even in Norway.
Statewide representation, support, a robust parts network, short term and long term tests by known western media and 3rd parties.
Hot weather testing, cold weather testing.
Bjorn Nyland in Norway tests many of these cars and I havent seen anything to be envious of, for that matter they don't seem to be able to make a car that doesn't overheat its battery pack when high speed charging even in Norway.
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Einstein already emigrated and was a professor at Princeton in the 1930s. He was a naturalized US citizen before the start of WWII. He clearly had no love for the Nazi regime in Germany. That being said, I don't believe he was part of the development of the atomic bomb other than suggesting that Germany was going to work on one and the US better put in an effort. But obviously there were many like Edward Teller who escaped Europe. Even Hans Bethe, who was German but had Jewish ancestry. But the biggest issue was that they had spies for the Soviet Union working on the Manhattan Project.
https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/People/Scientists/klaus-fuchs.html
If you're worried about spies, these days it's probably not about ideology or cultural loyalty, but about money. The man who sold tons of classified F-35 materials to China was of Indian ancestry. I heard of a General Electric researcher originally from China who provided information to a Chinese company, but that was apparently about money where he was hoping to return to China and start a business.
An indictment unsealed today charges Xiaoqing Zheng, 56, of Niskayuna, New York, and Zhaoxi Zhang, 47, of Liaoning Province, China, with economic espionage and conspiring to steal General Electric’s (GE’s) trade secrets surrounding turbine technologies, knowing and intending that those stolen trade secrets would be used to benefit the People’s Republic of China. Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers, U.S. Attorney Grant C. Jaquith for the Northern District of New York, Assistant Director John Brown of the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division and Special Agent in Charge James N. Hendricks of the FBI’s Albany Field Office made the announcement.
According to the 14-count indictment, Zheng, while employed at GE Power & Water in Schenectady, New York as an engineer specializing in sealing technology, exploited his access to GE’s files by stealing multiple electronic files, including proprietary files involving design models, engineering drawings, configuration files, and material specifications having to do with various components and testing systems associated with GE gas and steam turbines. Zheng e-mailed and transferred many of the stolen GE files to his business partner, Chinese businessman Zhaoxi Zhang, who was located in China. Zheng and Zhang used the stolen GE trade secrets to advance their own business interests in two Chinese companies - Liaoning Tianyi Aviation Technology Co., Ltd. (LTAT) and Nanjing Tianyi Avi Tech Co. Ltd. (NTAT), companies which research, develop, and manufacture parts for turbines.
Zheng worked at GE from 2008 until the summer of 2018. According to court documents, he conspired with his wife's nephew and other individuals in China to steal GE's proprietary information related to the company's ground - and aviation-based turbine technologies — both of which Beijing has listed as major research and manufacturing priorities for 2030 under the county's latest five-year plan.
Obviously it's very difficult to prevent someone from leaving the United States and providing expertise that might not be as advanced somewhere else. But downloading classified information and packing it on a portable drive is a completely different matter. I used to read the South China Morning Post (of Hong Kong) and it seemed like any time there was a subject matter expert from the west (ethnic Chinese or not) taking a research position at a Chinese university, they would report on it like it was a coup. And they still have comments sections (which don't allow use of Chinese language characters) where they have a small army of people talking it up like it's the rise of China and the decline of the west. And those comments are often that ethnic Chinese are somehow "disloyal" or somehow owe something to the PRC.
Agree. It is impossible to prevent all spies and if you only look at certain traits the spying would just move to another form (like your example of using Indian to spy for CCP instead of Chinese nationals). It really should be done at the lowest level on limited access like today's lockup of external drives, need to know access, analysis of access pattern, etc.
For example at my work we lock up all document unless you need access to them, and all file downloads are monitored by IT, and external email (like gmail) is limited to read only at work and no sending personal email. Is it perfect? Probably not, but IMO it is safer than relying on "we don't hire foreigners".
Now if you are the inventor of certain technologies and a foreign company wants to hire you for their R&D, I don't know if the government can use non compete clause to prevent you from being hired. At least within the US non compete is why Boston lost its tech center status to Bay Area.
For example at my work we lock up all document unless you need access to them, and all file downloads are monitored by IT, and external email (like gmail) is limited to read only at work and no sending personal email. Is it perfect? Probably not, but IMO it is safer than relying on "we don't hire foreigners".
Now if you are the inventor of certain technologies and a foreign company wants to hire you for their R&D, I don't know if the government can use non compete clause to prevent you from being hired. At least within the US non compete is why Boston lost its tech center status to Bay Area.
I know in California, non-compete clauses are mostly unenforceable. I do remember signing one when I was a contractor working at a big semiconductor company and it was very specific to not working at that specific company for a year without the permission of the contracting company that employed me. I suspect it wasn't enforceable either. Soon after that job, I actually interviewed for another job that would have had me working there again, but it was a different contracting company. They saw my resume and I mentioned the non-compete agreement to the management. They said to not worry about it, as it was clearly not enforceable and if it came down to it they would hire an attorney. I actually got the offer but accepted a different offer (for a permanent job) and never really tested the resolve of either party.
Non-solicitation (aka "anti-poaching") might also have the same issues.
Nondisclosure agreements are very enforceable though, but it's kind of hard to enforce when someone someone leaves the country.
There are certainly a lot of legal issues, like civil rights laws. For any number of reasons, refusing to hire ethnic Chinese people is not going to work in the United States. That's a lot of talent, and in a way assuming that they can't be trusted is like asking the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"
But access by way too many people is obviously a problem. You can look at what happened with Bradley (now Chelsea) Manning and Edward Snowden, where both managed to get access and release large amounts of information even though they were relatively low-level people. In the case of Reality Winner, she was mostly accessing classified materials on a need to know basis, but something just happened to be seen by her that she thought was shocking.
JHZR2
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They’re showing up in Europe…
I provided the whole link to the above story.
Tesla China sales are down 30% for the month of May and down over 7% so far this year
https://carnewschina.com/2025/06/09...-the-best-selling-suv-crown-in-china-for-may/
“Despite defending the crown of the best-selling SUV, the US automaker’s year-over-year comparisons don’t look so good. In May, Tesla sales in China were down 30% YoY to 38,588 units. In 2025 so far (Jan – May), Tesla sold 201,926 units in China, down 7.8% from the same period last year. In the last five months, Tesla experienced a year-over-year decline in four of them.”
