Cheapest route to a high performance car?
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Originally Posted by Mr Nice
ARCO,
I thought they were Mexican made trans in the Mustang.
IMSA,
C5 Z06 has a lot of performance for little money.
the MT82 Manual Transmissions in the 2015 and later Mustangs were made in China and they were shipped in. ... Ford did a major upgrade on the MT82 Transmissions in the 2018 and 2019 Mustangs that supposedly addresses the durability issues
Reminds me of the junk T5 that replaced the T10 back in the early Mustang H.O. Days.
Blew those T5's up left and right.
I think I had 5 Fox body Mustangs along with my last - a 2001 Bullitt.
and a '78 Mustang II King Cobra with a(n est.260 HP) 302 that was lightly built.
Now THAT was a good mustang.
ARCO,
I thought they were Mexican made trans in the Mustang.
IMSA,
C5 Z06 has a lot of performance for little money.
the MT82 Manual Transmissions in the 2015 and later Mustangs were made in China and they were shipped in. ... Ford did a major upgrade on the MT82 Transmissions in the 2018 and 2019 Mustangs that supposedly addresses the durability issues
Reminds me of the junk T5 that replaced the T10 back in the early Mustang H.O. Days.
Blew those T5's up left and right.
I think I had 5 Fox body Mustangs along with my last - a 2001 Bullitt.
and a '78 Mustang II King Cobra with a(n est.260 HP) 302 that was lightly built.
Now THAT was a good mustang.
Porsche 996/997 (non turbo), 986/987 especially the "S" models. Lots of fun and a 911 under $30K, heck under $25K if you don't need a pristine one. Boxsters are less. They have a known issue w/ an engine baring that is 1) way overblown and 2) an easy fix on most years. Parts prices can be daunting but a well maintained one is easy to own and, frankly, they just don't break that often.
I had a Mustang II 302, put some money and sweat into it and man it was a beast. Got no respect but tons of personal satisfaction beating the likes of Porsche 944 Turbos not only in a straight line but out of fast sweepers with the rear drifting under power. The easiest car to drive quick I ever had.
Question for Miata people; will the factory rear differential and suspension survive a Ford small block if not drag raced?
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Skippy722
What do you plan on doing with it? Autocross, rallycross, road rally type things, drag racing?
^This ... without knowing the main purpose of the car, the suggestions will be all over the map.
Double on this.
Also define what kind of race car - straight line or handling? Is your idea of race 0-60 in 5 seconds, 4 seconds, 3 seconds, or 2 seconds? Budget of $10,000 or $100,000??
Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Question for Miata people; will the factory rear differential and suspension survive a Ford small block if not drag raced?
I am a HUGE fan of the Miata, there's a reason why people say "Miata is your answer" no matter what the question is. They're light, inexpensive, and can be made overpowered pretty easily. But that also depends whether 0-60 needs to be 5 seconds, 4 seconds, 3 seconds, 2 seconds... they are less suitable as that number drops radically. Right around 200-280hp they make pretty awesome vehicles by all accounts, much above that they start verging on overpowered. You can stick a Chevy LS in there and get 400hp instantly but it starts to become a bit of a handful with the short wheelbase and such, go look at videos of people who have swapped them to see what I mean. One swap i'm a fan of is the honda J-series which if it's one of the stock 240hp ones can just bolt right to the 5 speed with decent ratios and be alot of fun, but I don't know if i'd call this outright race car power. The 6 speeds are stronger but not as good of ratios once power climbs to 300hp. Miata rear ends seem to take in the 200-300hp range quite well as street vehicles, upgrades are not too hard, I think the Ford 8.8 is commonly used but I lost interest in specifics of that upgrade when I saw how 350hp plus Miatas behaved on a track/just a bit much to handle. How fast of a Ford small block? You can build one for 300hp or 500hp or 700hp on boost. I'd think it handle the first one just fine without slicks and drag abuse. But at that power i'd almost stick in a J-series, save 100lbs, have more fun revving it up (and better meeting the stock 5 speed ratios) and call it done. At 500hp i'd probably look at chassis with longer wheelbase that wont come around quite as fast when you start to lose traction.
As far as engines, though earlier Miatas often used milder Ford 302's (300hp max) i'd prefer a Chevy LS whenever possible for reliability, and in any other vehicle since even weight and compactness is the same. Ford 302's used to be the lighter option vs the small block chevy, but not vs the LS. LS is about the same weight and better in every way even just basic reliability at 300hp let alone more. The only case I wouldn't swap would be a newer mustang with a modular v8.
However race cars always like to be light. Newer mustangs with that modular v8 are still heavy by most standards like 3500lbs, there are other rear drive vehicles though which aren't that you can put a Chevy LS into to make power. That's pretty much the ticket to budget speed, one of the lighter vehicles is probably like the Toyota 86/Subaru BR-Z chassis vehicles which tend closer to 2700lbs - 500hp in that will be like 650hp in 3500lbs vehicles. I've seen some nicely modded ones of those. If/when I ever get out of my financial poverty hole my plan has always been to first get a Miata and learn to drive, and then get an 86-chassis and stick an LS in that once I want to get faster. (ie 11 second quarter mile and 0-60 in 4.0 seconds or less where the Miata just becomes increasingly hard to handle by what i've heard)
Originally Posted by Skippy722
What do you plan on doing with it? Autocross, rallycross, road rally type things, drag racing?
^This ... without knowing the main purpose of the car, the suggestions will be all over the map.
Double on this.
Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Question for Miata people; will the factory rear differential and suspension survive a Ford small block if not drag raced?
I am a HUGE fan of the Miata, there's a reason why people say "Miata is your answer" no matter what the question is. They're light, inexpensive, and can be made overpowered pretty easily. But that also depends whether 0-60 needs to be 5 seconds, 4 seconds, 3 seconds, 2 seconds... they are less suitable as that number drops radically. Right around 200-280hp they make pretty awesome vehicles by all accounts, much above that they start verging on overpowered. You can stick a Chevy LS in there and get 400hp instantly but it starts to become a bit of a handful with the short wheelbase and such, go look at videos of people who have swapped them to see what I mean. One swap i'm a fan of is the honda J-series which if it's one of the stock 240hp ones can just bolt right to the 5 speed with decent ratios and be alot of fun, but I don't know if i'd call this outright race car power. The 6 speeds are stronger but not as good of ratios once power climbs to 300hp. Miata rear ends seem to take in the 200-300hp range quite well as street vehicles, upgrades are not too hard, I think the Ford 8.8 is commonly used but I lost interest in specifics of that upgrade when I saw how 350hp plus Miatas behaved on a track/just a bit much to handle. How fast of a Ford small block? You can build one for 300hp or 500hp or 700hp on boost. I'd think it handle the first one just fine without slicks and drag abuse. But at that power i'd almost stick in a J-series, save 100lbs, have more fun revving it up (and better meeting the stock 5 speed ratios) and call it done. At 500hp i'd probably look at chassis with longer wheelbase that wont come around quite as fast when you start to lose traction.
As far as engines, though earlier Miatas often used milder Ford 302's (300hp max) i'd prefer a Chevy LS whenever possible for reliability, and in any other vehicle since even weight and compactness is the same. Ford 302's used to be the lighter option vs the small block chevy, but not vs the LS. LS is about the same weight and better in every way even just basic reliability at 300hp let alone more. The only case I wouldn't swap would be a newer mustang with a modular v8.
However race cars always like to be light. Newer mustangs with that modular v8 are still heavy by most standards like 3500lbs, there are other rear drive vehicles though which aren't that you can put a Chevy LS into to make power. That's pretty much the ticket to budget speed, one of the lighter vehicles is probably like the Toyota 86/Subaru BR-Z chassis vehicles which tend closer to 2700lbs - 500hp in that will be like 650hp in 3500lbs vehicles. I've seen some nicely modded ones of those. If/when I ever get out of my financial poverty hole my plan has always been to first get a Miata and learn to drive, and then get an 86-chassis and stick an LS in that once I want to get faster. (ie 11 second quarter mile and 0-60 in 4.0 seconds or less where the Miata just becomes increasingly hard to handle by what i've heard)
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Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Question for Miata people; will the factory rear differential and suspension survive a Ford small block if not drag raced?
No, not really. However, they are cheap, easy to change and plentiful. The hard core V8 swaps use an alternative differential. Sometimes a Ford 8.8
Better to purchase a well prepped Miata, rather than DIY.
Question for Miata people; will the factory rear differential and suspension survive a Ford small block if not drag raced?
No, not really. However, they are cheap, easy to change and plentiful. The hard core V8 swaps use an alternative differential. Sometimes a Ford 8.8
Better to purchase a well prepped Miata, rather than DIY.
2010 and up Camaro SS or go with a Mustang. There are some really good deals out there since the Camaro's are now 10 years old already.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
What about a 2003/2004 Cobra? They are a bit nose heavy but have IRS and I call in non-vert trim could be setup to track really well and of course the supercharged engine has a ridiculous amount of power potential.
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by eljefino
I wonder what could be done with a late 90's supercharged Buick Regal or mid 00's V6 Accord or Camry. Or even a 3.6 V6 Dodge Avenger.
IMNSHO, FWD is pointless in anything larger than a Civic.
Agreed. My mom has a 3.6 FWD 200. It will annihilate the tires in 1st, chirp and spin part of the way through 2nd, and try to torque steer you into a ditch. Deceptively quick little car though.
Originally Posted by eljefino
I wonder what could be done with a late 90's supercharged Buick Regal or mid 00's V6 Accord or Camry. Or even a 3.6 V6 Dodge Avenger.
IMNSHO, FWD is pointless in anything larger than a Civic.
Agreed. My mom has a 3.6 FWD 200. It will annihilate the tires in 1st, chirp and spin part of the way through 2nd, and try to torque steer you into a ditch. Deceptively quick little car though.
Best bang for the buck are probably the 4th gen LS1 Camaro's and Firebirds....1998-2002....basically 350 hp from the factory....same engine as the Vettes of that same time. Tweak them a bit, upgrade suspension and you have a 400 hp beast similar to the GMMG cars of that era. Many nice ones out there with low mileage available for $7K to $13K. I bought my 12,000 mile one owner 1999 Camaro SS "cruiser" for $12,000 a few years back. A lot of these cars are already modified to the 400 hp level where someone else paid for all those mods....also available in the $10K-$15K range. The C5 and C6 Vettes will certainly be better, and considerably more cost. These were 5.2 sec / 13.2 sec cars right from the factory on stock tires. Can be made a lot faster.
If it was me I wouldn't go cheap. I would invest and have a good time with my investment. Don't wad it up. Last year Viper ACR with racing package. Almost unbeatable on the road course. Pretty decent on a drag strip, and has air conditioning for date night. Has the drivers aids now so you don't kill yourself being not enough driver for the car. Many deaths attributed to the earlier Vipers, too much car for amateurs.
https://www.hendrickperformance.com...y_81_miles__-used-1c3bdeczxhv500710.html
https://www.hendrickperformance.com...y_81_miles__-used-1c3bdeczxhv500710.html
Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
I'm talking something that will go and stop like a race car. Back in my day it was a early Fox body Mustang due to the short wheelbase and huge aftermarket for suspension, brakes, and Small Block Ford parts. Is that still the case?
A fox is not a race car, and to make it one was NOT cheap.
Cheapest path to as close as you can get? C6 Z06 out of the box. Cheaper still? C5 corvette + a cam + a tire.
I'm talking something that will go and stop like a race car. Back in my day it was a early Fox body Mustang due to the short wheelbase and huge aftermarket for suspension, brakes, and Small Block Ford parts. Is that still the case?
A fox is not a race car, and to make it one was NOT cheap.
Cheapest path to as close as you can get? C6 Z06 out of the box. Cheaper still? C5 corvette + a cam + a tire.
There was a track package for the 2010-13 V6 Mustangs. The basically got the GT's brakes and suspension, and quicker ratio steering. You would avoid the V8 tax and be able to thrash it on a road course without upgrading too much. If you are in shape and just want to race something silly fast, a go kart has the best price/performance ratio.
You ever seen the goonzsquad on YouTube, they buy a totaled ferrari about put in like $5k , brand new again
There was a video of a runs and drives Tesla
Had a lawn chair and no body to speak of
Had a lawn chair and no body to speak of
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Depends what you mean by cheapest. Can get a decent C6 Corvette for under $20k.
I don't think a Fox body mustang is really practical nowadays, most are thoroughly used (or trashed) so you're most likely going to being spending a large chunk of change just to get the car back to square one in terms of reliability. Newer V8 Mustang's are nice but anything with a Mustang and a GT attached to it commands a hefty premium. I think the Infiniti G35/37 and Nissan 350Z/370Z offer a lot of performance for what they're going for now. You can get a 6 speed manual early G35 coupe with 280 hp for peanuts compared to that they where new, sure it's not a V8 but the VQ engines where the best V6's made in their day. There was a stretch of about 10 years where a Nissan VQ was on Wards 10 Best engines list for nearly every year, which no Porsche, BMW, LS, etc engine can come close to matching.
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