Charging to get home

[y_p_w]

No, my understanding is that all EV’s require complete functionality of the pack in order to operate at all.

That would be pretty poor design if they can't at least move with one completely dead module. A Model S has 16 modules. Obviously there's a high potential for a single cell to fail given there are thousands of them in the entire battery pack.

It should be able to isolate a dead module, flash big warnings to the driver, but still drive - at least in some sort of limp mode.

 

[The Critic]

That would be pretty poor design if they can't at least move with one completely dead module. A Model S has 16 modules. Obviously there's a high potential for a single cell to fail given there are thousands of them in the entire battery pack.

It should be able to isolate a dead module, flash big warnings to the driver, but still drive - at least in some sort of limp mode.

That’s how every EV or hybrid works. If a module is dead it creates a pack imbalance issue. For safety reasons, the entire pack is unusable.

 

[dogememe]

That’s how every EV or hybrid works. If a module is dead it creates a pack imbalance issue. For safety reasons, the entire pack is unusable.

I was under the impression the Prius could still work with a failed hybrid battery. It would just set a code turning on the check engine light, run the engine all the time, and not perform as well? While it seems full EVs and PHEVs like the Volt die completely upon a cell failure.

 

[The Critic]

I was under the impression the Prius could still work with a failed hybrid battery. It would just set a code turning on the check engine light, run the engine all the time, and not perform as well? While it seems full EVs and PHEVs like the Volt die completely upon a cell failure.

Depends on the extent of failure. General consensus is that it can be extremely unreliable.

 

[Astro14]

Astro, I am not sure I follow. When I stopped to charge (and get coffee, which I didn't) I think I had 90 miles remaining with 80 miles to go. 48 mile "top off" was way more than I needed.
On this particular trip, going through The City is slow and doesn't consume a lot of juice due to regen. Then, after the San Mateo area, there is an overall descent into Silicon Valley area, of about 35 miles. I left Petaluma with about 47% SOC; I don't recall what I started with but it was likely 80%. This trip is more about me continuing to learn about my car than anything else. Range anxiety is real, so both the naysayers and fan boys are right. I sure as heck don't wanna get stuck.

I think people may be overthinking "charge to destination". The lowest SOC I have ever returned home with was 17%. And that is relatively safe, because of the plethora of chargers around here.

Then, I misunderstood your first post, the one that started this thread. You said that you added 48 miles - but didn’t specify how much you had before - and that it was enough to get you home.

Even a planned arrival home at 17% might be cutting it too close for me, but that is far more than I inferred from your first post.

 

[Astro14]

Just for giggles - mapped out a "round trip" from the East Bay to an area right outside of Sacramento. 183 mile round trip. Vehicle used for mapping is a current-gen Model Y LR (330 mile range).

Based on historical data and current conditions, software wants a 5 min charging stop upon arriving at the destination.

View attachment 177347
On paper, one would not expect for a vehicle with a 330 mile range to require a 5 min charging stop during a 183 mile round trip in flat terrain, but this goes to show you that a lot of variables are being contemplated in the route planning.

That is a very interesting data point.

 

[demarpaint]

Fair enough. I was curious because you said this stuff happens to people all the time. I wondered what happened to them.
I am more data driven vs anecdotal.

I was waiting for you to ask. Data I don't spend my days and nights searching for it, I read and listen to news. So how is this, my buddy has a vacation home in the Catskills. His neighbor has an EV, IIRC a Tesla, but I can't swear to it. He spends occasional weekends there he lives on L.I. I believe. He noticed his electric bill higher than normal more than once. On his last visit to the property he installed a ring and bagged someone charging his car at the guy's house. If you want some interesting info check out the rolling blackouts in TX, they can't deal the heat wave, and there's a push to banish the ICE by 2035. Once again good luck with that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I was waiting for you to ask. Data I don't spend my days and nights searching for it, I read and listen to news. So how is this, my buddy has a vacation home in the Catskills. His neighbor has an EV, IIRC a Tesla, but I can't swear to it. He spends occasional weekends there he lives on L.I. I believe. He noticed his electric bill higher than normal more than once. On his last visit to the property he installed a ring and bagged someone charging his car at the guy's house. If you want some interesting info check out the rolling blackouts in TX, they can't deal the heat wave, and there's a push to banish the ICE by 2035. Once again good luck with that.

Thieves; hate 'em. There are a 2 houses on my block that have a Tesla Wall Charger mounted outside. These have pretty long cords; 20' maybe? I've wondered about people stopping to steal a little juice. In a remote area, this could easily be a problem. I am considering a Wall Charger install; it will be inside. Right now I use the Mobile Charger cord plugged into a NEMA 14-50 dedicated circuit. The Mobil Charger came with the car; currently stupid Elon charges extra! I guess he needs the coin...

 

[The Critic]

That is a very interesting data point.

For comparison - slightly longer trip, but from East Bay down to Santa Cruz with multiple stops. No charging will be needed.

Based on historical data on vehicle consumption, I suspect that some range is gained back during the Hwy 17 section.

 

[y_p_w]

I was waiting for you to ask. Data I don't spend my days and nights searching for it, I read and listen to news. So how is this, my buddy has a vacation home in the Catskills. His neighbor has an EV, IIRC a Tesla, but I can't swear to it. He spends occasional weekends there he lives on L.I. I believe. He noticed his electric bill higher than normal more than once. On his last visit to the property he installed a ring and bagged someone charging his car at the guy's house. If you want some interesting info check out the rolling blackouts in TX, they can't deal the heat wave, and there's a push to banish the ICE by 2035. Once again good luck with that.

Rolling blackouts probably aren't that big a deal for EV charging given that most EV owners charge at night - especially with EV-specific time of use rate plans.

My understanding in Texas is that they typically peak at around 7-8 PM because people are home from work and turning on their A/C to cool down their homes that were baking all day. The supply is made worse since solar output is down or completely gone. But demand should be alleviated by midnight as the temps drop. I found this chart which shows power demand in June 2022 during a heat wave. I'm thinking EV charging demand is probably somewhere in there.

 

[demarpaint]

Thieves; hate 'em. There are a 2 houses on my block that have a Tesla Wall Charger mounted outside. These have pretty long cords; 20' maybe? I've wondered about people stopping to steal a little juice. In a remote area, this could easily be a problem. I am considering a Wall Charger install; it will be inside. Right now I use the Mobile Charger cord plugged into a NEMA 14-50 dedicated circuit. The Mobil Charger came with the car; currently stupid Elon charges extra! I guess he needs the coin...
View attachment 177362

His power is outside, now he has to make sure the breaker to it is turned off when he leaves. He doesn't have a garage. Typical for many summer homes.

 

[y_p_w]

Thieves; hate 'em. There are a 2 houses on my block that have a Tesla Wall Charger mounted outside. These have pretty long cords; 20' maybe? I've wondered about people stopping to steal a little juice. In a remote area, this could easily be a problem. I am considering a Wall Charger install; it will be inside. Right now I use the Mobile Charger cord plugged into a NEMA 14-50 dedicated circuit. The Mobil Charger came with the car; currently stupid Elon charges extra! I guess he needs the coin...
View attachment 177362

Not sure about the earlier ones, but I looked up the install guide for the Gen 3 Wall Connector and it can be set up with access control for designated Teslas by VIN. I get that the Destination Charging program usually means a Wall Connector is set up where it doesn't require a registration nor log the power usage per vehicle, but I've heard that there is some pilot program to allow the host to charge for the power. But to program this, it has to be connected via the Wall Connector's built-in Wi-Fi, which apparently isn't internet connected but allows access to set it up.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf​

Setting Up Access Control​

The Charging Access Control feature provides full control over which vehicles are allowed to charge with your Wall Connector and excludes vehicles without access based on user specifications.​

1. Sign into the commissioning wizard..
Use the Commissioning Procedure on page 28 to sign into the commissioning wizard and connect to​

the Wall Connector Wi-Fi SSID by clicking on the 'Access Control' card.​

​

2. Configure Access Control.
You can choose from three options:​

◦ 'All Vehicles'​

This is the default option and will allow charging on all electric vehicles with a matching charge port. To charge with the older generation Tesla Roadster, you will need to pick the 'All Vehicles' option​

◦ 'Only Tesla'
This option blocks charging on non-Tesla EVs.​

◦ 'Authorized Teslas Only'​

This option allows you to add up to 10 specified Tesla cars by their VIN and assign an optional name. For convenience, the VIN of the last 10 cars previously connected to the Wall Connector is made available for selection. The VIN is usually displayed on your windshield and can also be found in the 'Software' tab on your vehicle touchscreen.​

The cable used to be 24 feet long, but the latest version is 20 feet.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Not sure about the earlier ones, but I looked up the install guide for the Gen 3 Wall Connector and it can be set up with access control for designated Teslas by VIN. I get that the Destination Charging program usually means a Wall Connector is set up where it doesn't require a registration nor log the power usage per vehicle, but I've heard that there is some pilot program to allow the host to charge for the power. But to program this, it has to be connected via the Wall Connector's built-in Wi-Fi, which apparently isn't internet connected but allows access to set it up.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf​

Setting Up Access Control​

The Charging Access Control feature provides full control over which vehicles are allowed to charge with your Wall Connector and excludes vehicles without access based on user specifications.​

1. Sign into the commissioning wizard..​

Use the Commissioning Procedure on page 28 to sign into the commissioning wizard and connect to​

the Wall Connector Wi-Fi SSID by clicking on the 'Access Control' card.​

In my neighborhood, having a Wall Charger, or NEMA 14-50 outside would not be a problem. @demarpaint is referring to a different scenario; it seems his friend is not in an urban, well patrolled, watchful neighbor neighborhood.
I see a few outside chargers while others run the cord outside under the garage door. That's what I would do. My plug is near the garage door now. Right now I am good to go, but I would like to keep the Mobile Charger cord in the car. That way, if I drove to Petaluma I could plug in and pull about 30 mph. The Mobile Charger is expensive! $230 I believe...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Brief update: I think the displayed charge to charge was $4.77; definitely under $5. Apparently that's an estimate; $3.96 was posted to my credit card...

 

[y_p_w]

In my neighborhood, having a Wall Charger, or NEMA 14-50 outside would not be a problem. @demarpaint is referring to a different scenario; it seems his friend is not in an urban, well patrolled, watchful neighbor neighborhood.
I see a few outside chargers while others run the cord outside under the garage door. That's what I would do. My plug is near the garage door now. Right now I am good to go, but I would like to keep the Mobile Charger cord in the car. That way, if I drove to Petaluma I could plug in and pull about 30 mph. The Mobile Charger is expensive! $230 I believe...

So an outside electrical outlet - possibly one that has a cover? My parents have one, but my home doesn't. But that's just a standard 3-prong adapter. I suppose one of the things that could be done is something like a remote controlled system (Google Home Assistant or Amazon Alexa) where the outlets can be turned on/off. I know some people have lights controlled that way where they can be programmed and give an impression that a home is occupied. Especially if there's a garage and nobody can tell if there's a vehicle there.

I'm thinking of the movie Pump Up the Volume where the main character is running a pirate radio station and taking calls. When the police trace the phone location, they arrive only to find that it's a cordless phone in one of his neighbor's sheds and that could mean several homes on the same block. But I guess it might be interesting in a rural environment. Still - I'd think maybe it would be worthwhile to invest in outlets that could be controlled remotely, although who knows if someone might be willing to do something extreme like risk electrocution and install basic outlets to replace remote controlled ones.

 

[y_p_w]

Brief update: I think the displayed charge to charge was $4.77; definitely under $5. Apparently that's an estimate; $3.96 was posted to my credit card...

That stuff is inconsistent. In my parents' Model 3 RWD, it's been at a Supercharger maybe 3 times. It would always have a cost for the last charging session, even if it was zeroed out by charging credits (where they apparently had 100 miles worth). It hasn't been at one since June (used several times thinking it might be the promised 3 months free charging), but the raw cost of the last charging session is still displayed.

On a Model 3 P100D loaner it would display the raw cost even though Supercharging was included and paid for directly by Tesla. But then a 2018 Model 3 Long Range loaner never showed an update of the charging cost. It would display a cost from a while ago.

 

[dogememe]

His power is outside, now he has to make sure the breaker to it is turned off when he leaves. He doesn't have a garage. Typical for many summer homes.

I haven’t had this issue, at least I don’t think so. The end of my charging cable lays outside - it’s routed underneath the garage door. Then again they’d probably plug in, realize it’s just level 1 charging and gets them a few miles per hour of charging, and go elsewhere. If I had a good Level 2 charger I wouldn’t leave it out in the open like that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

So an outside electrical outlet - possibly one that has a cover?

Exactly. The NEMA 14-50 receptacle is on the side of the house, just inside the gate. It has a flip cover. They leave the Mobile Connector plugged in most of the time, draped over the fence.
Other neighbors have the Wall Charger in the front of the house; most have it inside the garage.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Unfortunately the nice rebate left , my sister in law picked one up with about $8k in tax credits just before laws changed up. So that all was a wash.

She charges for “free” at home with solar panels and the school janitor ran her an extension cord to charge for her 32 mile each way commute to HS as teacher. So she barely uses gasoline commuting.

The $8K difference is after the tax credit.

THere are only 2 Prime models.

SE is $44K, usually a $5K minimum market adjustment to $49K, less $7500 rebate = $41.5K. Hybrid SE is $35K MSRP. you can usually get them pretty close, maybe a little more. $7K difference depending on exact conditions.

There is also a XSE - Prime $48K + 5K market adjustment = $53K - $7.5 = $45.5. XSE hybrid=$38K MSPR So in the $7K more range

Depends on the market and the market adjustment, and some states have additional rebates, but everyone I read buying one on Rav4world, and there were many, were paying $8K premium after rebate unless your in a state with the additional kicker.

Why anyone would pay a market adjustment on any grocery getter is beyond me.

 

[y_p_w]

Exactly. The NEMA 14-50 receptacle is on the side of the house, just inside the gate. It has a flip cover. They leave the Mobile Connector plugged in most of the time, draped over the fence.
Other neighbors have the Wall Charger in the front of the house; most have it inside the garage.

Not sure if there's any kind of control outlet for a 14-50. I suppose there are some covers that can be padlocked, but it might be pretty easy to just use bolt cutters. I remember the fuse box for my A/C had a place for a padlock just in case someone might try to tamper with it. I never used one though.