Charging to get home

demarpaint said:
I agree. We were talking traffic bridges, NY, NJ, etc. how would you like charging an EV in the Bronx at night because of a miscalculation, bad planning, or forgetting to charge it up at home? ;) These things happen to people all the time.
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Fort Apache

Could just as well be the Tenderloin or Inglewood.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Not true, at least in a Tesla. Latest numbers show less than 12% battery degradation after 200K.
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Under ideal conditions I assume.......

And Tesla may be the gold standard as we will soon be flooded with cheap China EVs when the US cannot supply what is being demanded of them by new standards. It's going to be a recycling and supply nightmare.
 
demarpaint said:
I agree. We were talking traffic bridges, NY, NJ, etc. how would you like charging an EV in the Bronx at night because of a miscalculation, bad planning, or forgetting to charge it up at home? ;) These things happen to people all the time.
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Curious... How many people do you know this has happened to? What happened to them?
 
SC Maintenance said:
The street price for a RAV4 PHEV vs a Hybrid Rav4 is like $8K difference - if you can find one. It would never pay for itself.

Maybe when there plentiful and lower markups.
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Unfortunately the nice rebate left , my sister in law picked one up with about $8k in tax credits just before laws changed up. So that all was a wash.

She charges for “free” at home with solar panels and the school janitor ran her an extension cord to charge for her 32 mile each way commute to HS as teacher. So she barely uses gasoline commuting.
 
JeffKeryk said:
No, an average of all the data they have. And remember, the higher number cars are the older batteries; the newer batteries are better.
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They still will need material we don't have and currently are gotten under atrocious conditions. Don't get stuck in a snow drift in a blizzard at -25F/-40F wind chill I guess.

Great for around town but then so is my trusty Accent.
 
y_p_w said:
I deal with West Contra Costa, and it is rather odd for the Bay Area where there's nothing near I-80/CA-4 on the way between El Cerrito/Richmond and Martinez. It seems like there should be something there - especially Pinole Vista Center or Hilltop Plaza. But it's nothing like what I was dealing with going up the North Coast where it might be 100 miles between charging stations. We charged to about 90% in Ukiah and hoped that we would make it to Eureka, which we did with plenty of charge left. However, there were a lot of road construction single-lane controls and one-way signaled roads, but in the end that didn't use much more juice.

That being said, if it's an emergency and one is willing to deal with Level 2 charging, it's not that bad. It seems like a lot of auto dealers are setting up public charging stations. And it's really weird because I read somewhere that the Chevron Richmond Refinery is setting up a Tesla Destination Charger (as a courtesy to refinery visitors), although if I'm that area I'd probably use a Tesla Supercharger in a CVS parking lot in Point Richmond. If anything, I'm thinking employees are going to be using that.
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Agreed. I think Hercules and Rio Vista are the two areas where they need to add one.
 
Just for giggles - mapped out a "round trip" from the East Bay to an area right outside of Sacramento. 183 mile round trip. Vehicle used for mapping is a current-gen Model Y LR (330 mile range).

Based on historical data and current conditions, software wants a 5 min charging stop upon arriving at the destination.

1694108875432.webp

On paper, one would not expect for a vehicle with a 330 mile range to require a 5 min charging stop during a 183 mile round trip in flat terrain, but this goes to show you that a lot of variables are being contemplated in the route planning.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Curious... How many people do you know this has happened to? What happened to them?
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Fortunately I don't know anyone I socialize with who would own a Tesla, so no one I know would ever get themselves into a nightmare of a situation like that. And FTR I was asking John a question about a place we are both familiar with.
 
JeffKeryk said:
No, an average of all the data they have. And remember, the higher number cars are the older batteries; the newer batteries are better.
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I think degradation on EV batteries with good thermal management/battery management is almost a non-issue. It's not like we're talking about Nissan Leafs that have 1/4 of their range at 10 years. In a Tesla, sure your 250 mile range might eventually become a 200 mile range, who cares, the car is still very useful. And degradation is very gradual, if you buy the car new and own it for 10+ years you'll notice it, get used to it, and adjust your charging habits as needed.

The bigger issue IMO is actually failure of the battery, rendering the car unusable. Only one cell needs to fail for this to happen. Plenty of people on Tesla forums with these issues on their out of warranty Teslas. Last I heard its about $15-20K for a new pack or there are third-party companies out there that will remove the failed cell, program it out, and get you back in business. Plenty of people on the Chevy Volt Owners facebook group with similar issues, except there, no new packs available - just third-party remans from used cells for $7-$10K. A single cell failing makes the entire car undriveable. Either it stops while driving or throws errors and won't restart and then it's a brick. It could happen to any EV, any time. This is a greater issue IMO because it makes the car completely worthless and useless with no prior warning.
 
The Critic said:
Agreed. I think Hercules and Rio Vista are the two areas where they need to add one.
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Tesla has that big gap along that I-80/CA-4 corridor of course. I was thinking about it, and there are various Level 2 charging stations along that route, but obviously that's not as convenient as what Tesla provides and how tightly they're integrated into their navigation system. But on CA-4 there's nothing until reaching Martinez. I would have thought that maybe the Franklin Canyon Golf Course would have been a good spot for someone to set up a J1772 charger.
 
The Critic said:
Just for giggles - mapped out a "round trip" from the East Bay to an area right outside of Sacramento. 183 mile round trip. Vehicle used for mapping is a current-gen Model Y LR (330 mile range).

Based on historical data and current conditions, software wants a 5 min charging stop upon arriving at the destination.

View attachment 177347
On paper, one would not expect for a vehicle with a 330 mile range to require a 5 min charging stop during a 183 mile round trip in flat terrain, but this goes to show you that a lot of variables are being contemplated in the route planning.
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It's unlikely to be in a severely low charge level. But obviously it's not a good thing to arrive at a low state and then worry about whether or not it's going to be undriveable in the morning for whatever reason.

I showed the one I mapped out where there was a 5 minute recommended charge even though there should be ample range to reach the next recommended charger. But Tesla's trip planner might not be looking at current traffic conditions, charger use, etc. But if I'm going on a long trip, I would prefer to map out individual charging locations for navigation and then adjust if they're unavailable. But having the navigation tools available for recommendations isn't a bad thing when it comes to adjusting on the fly.
 
I'm old school. The Hybrid Accord I drove was nice and I might consider in the future. I've been stuck in things like this a couple times over the years (internet EV bash picture below). But I carry emergency gear just in case to stay warm. My cars don't go below 1/2 a tank and I can idle and warm up then shut back down. 1/2 tank is a lot of hours of heat sitting there. I've shoveled, pulled others, shared my supplies as they ran low or out of fuel. Once cleared I could drive for hours still.

We had here on Long Island people stuck on Bald Hill that needed payloaders to clear the road. People were writing last will and testaments. They ran out of fuel (not to much EV then). Wife had the Sequoia then. I drove back and forth to firehouse to rescue stuck people.
IMG_9794.webp
 
EVs charged at home have a good cpm relative to ICE. EVs charged at any commercial charging point are dang expensive cpm relative to ICE. And either way they aren't really ready for prime time unless one never ever travels farther than 40% discharge range from home to ensure getting back home without requiring charging.
 
dogememe said:
I think degradation on EV batteries with good thermal management/battery management is almost a non-issue. It's not like we're talking about Nissan Leafs that have 1/4 of their range at 10 years. In a Tesla, sure your 250 mile range might eventually become a 200 mile range, who cares, the car is still very useful. And degradation is very gradual, if you buy the car new and own it for 10+ years you'll notice it, get used to it, and adjust your charging habits as needed.

The bigger issue IMO is actually failure of the battery, rendering the car unusable. Only one cell needs to fail for this to happen. Plenty of people on Tesla forums with these issues on their out of warranty Teslas. Last I heard its about $15-20K for a new pack or there are third-party companies out there that will remove the failed cell, program it out, and get you back in business. Plenty of people on the Chevy Volt Owners facebook group with similar issues, except there, no new packs available - just third-party remans from used cells for $7-$10K. A single cell failing makes the entire car undriveable. Either it stops while driving or throws errors and won't restart and then it's a brick. It could happen to any EV, any time. This is a greater issue IMO because it makes the car completely worthless and useless with no prior warning.
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Really? It's my understanding that Teslas can handle a complete module failure, although it should give a warning about it.

A single cell going down is usually recoverable.
 
y_p_w said:
Really? It's my understanding that Teslas can handle a complete module failure, although it should give a warning about it.

A single cell going down is usually recoverable.
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No, my understanding is that all EV’s require complete functionality of the pack in order to operate at all.
 
The Critic said:
Just for giggles - mapped out a "round trip" from the East Bay to an area right outside of Sacramento. 183 mile round trip. Vehicle used for mapping is a current-gen Model Y LR (330 mile range).

Based on historical data and current conditions, software wants a 5 min charging stop upon arriving at the destination.

View attachment 177347
On paper, one would not expect for a vehicle with a 330 mile range to require a 5 min charging stop during a 183 mile round trip in flat terrain, but this goes to show you that a lot of variables are being contemplated in the route planning.
Click to expand...
That’s the difference between 330 mile epa range vs 220 ish real range.
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-y#
 
The Critic said:
No, my understanding is that all EV’s require complete functionality of the pack in order to operate at all.
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This is my understanding as well, across ALL brands and models of EVs. Any cell failure= bricked car.

This is a larger issue when compared to ICE vehicles. Sure, stuff can, and has, failed suddenly, but most major failures have some warning signs if you pay attention and are at least somewhat in tune with your vehicle. And even a car with a blown head gasket or transmission stuck in limp mode can be driven a short distance if need be. Not ideal but it's possible. Vs an EV with a cell failure goes from perfectly functional to dead instantly.
 
demarpaint said:
Fortunately I don't know anyone I socialize with who would own a Tesla, so no one I know would ever get themselves into a nightmare of a situation like that. And FTR I was asking John a question about a place we are both familiar with.
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Fair enough. I was curious because you said this stuff happens to people all the time. I wondered what happened to them.
I am more data driven vs anecdotal.
 
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