charger for small gel battery

[Brybo86]

I bought a gel battery for my 2 stroke scooter
i measured and this is the largest battery that will fit in the compartment.
significantly bigger than the 4L-BS it replaced

battery is a ytx7bs 12volt 6AH


in reading online it says these need to be charged slower and a bit differently than flooded or AGM batteries.

How does an automatic charger know if it is connected to a flooded,AGM or GEL?

recommend a charger that i should use for this GEL battery
thanks

 

[BigCahuna]

A Battery Tender .075 amp model should do the trick. I believe that the smallest model that they make. I bought mine online a few years back for $24.95 iirc.,,

 

[Cujet]

Battery tender makes a number of products that will charge an AGM battery properly. There are plenty of inexpensive copies too.

Amazon has a 12V, 3/4 amp battery tender brand charger on sale for $25. I have a good number of these little trickle chargers. The battery tender brand seems to be as good as any.

 

[ragtoplvr]

The OP said the battery he wanted to charge was gel. I personally would not use gel in powersports applications.

They have to have a slower charge amps than AGM, and the charge amps in your scooter is not regulated. If it gets too much charge there can be a gas bubble generated, and they do not purge gas bubbles very well with gel electrolyte. They also do not do well at the high current discharge you have when you use the starter motor. Gel success is often not good, and another gel different brand or even same brand will do well. I have never heard a real convincing reason as they why they vary so much.

Rod

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
The OP said the battery he wanted to charge was gel. I personally would not use gel in powersports applications.

They have to have a slower charge amps than AGM, and the charge amps in your scooter is not regulated. If it gets too much charge there can be a gas bubble generated, and they do not purge gas bubbles very well with gel electrolyte. They also do not do well at the high current discharge you have when you use the starter motor. Gel success is often not good, and another gel different brand or even same brand will do well. I have never heard a real convincing reason as they why they vary so much.

Rod

After much reading over the last few days i agree it does seem like GEL isnt the best for powersports, AGM is probably the better battery type.

I paid $30 for this battery and I may end up eating that cost if it doesn't work out.

 

[UncleDave]

My standard go to - optimate 6 tm181


flooded, agm, gel, / from 3-240 AH - covers about everything

recovers down to .5 volts

https://tecmate.com/products/optimate6a/

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
My standard go to - optimate 6 tm181


flooded, agm, gel, / from 3-240 AH - covers about everything

recovers down to .5 volts

https://tecmate.com/products/optimate6a/


UD, i know you love your chargers from previous threads, what is the lowest charging amps you have seen the optimate 6 output into a small battery?

 

[UncleDave]

I've seen it put out short 1 amp pulses.

Im guessing it would likely stay at or pulse 1 amp.

The smallest battery I own is a 10 AMP genset battery, and it never goes to 5, and doesnt even put out 3 for very long even after sitting for half a year.
It spends most of its time pulsing at 1 amp.

I have charged smaller batteries than 10 ah with it that weren't mine.

UD

 

[Hermann]

Originally Posted by BigCahuna
A Battery Tender .075 amp model should do the trick. I believe that the smallest model that they make. I bought mine online a few years back for $24.95 iirc.,,


It is available online at the price mentioned from several sources on the giant auctions site. Saw them a couple weeks ago. Just search Battery Tender Jr.

 

[UncleDave]

With that version of the 6 it defaults to a standard flooded profile on plug in and you have to select AGM or gel manually.

The little battery tenders are good products but rather dumb and with such a small amount of power really limited to maintaining vs charging anything of any substance so the device itself isnt as useful overall.

UD

 

[barryh]

I have an AGM/Gel hybrid (AGM plates with gel electrolyte) battery on my motorcycle. It came with a data sheet for charging voltage : float charge 13.6 - 13.8 volts and cyclic charge 14.5 to 14.8 volts so I make sure not to exceed those figures. I believe a straight Gel battery would require a lower cyclic charging voltage.

It's well over 5 years old now and still performs like new. It's ability to hold a charge is excellent so in practice it very rarely needs charging. Cranking amps are marginally lower than the AGM version of the same battery but that's never been a problem.

 

[wag123]

A 12v 6AH Gel Cell battery used cyclically should be charged at between 14.4-14.7v and no higher than 1.75A for about 4-5 hours. There are several 1.5A chargers available on Amazon that will work.

 

[Brybo86]

It it matters when I pulled it out of the shipping box it tested at 13.3 volts.
Seemed high.
I don't remember any of my batteries over 13 , ever

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by Brybo86
It it matters when I pulled it out of the shipping box it tested at 13.3 volts.
Seemed high.
I don't remember any of my batteries over 13 , ever


Normal for a healthy battery.

The battery tender Jr will work fine on gel cells. Apologies for writing AGM above, I had been searching for a 6v AGM for my Honda XL100

 

[kc8adu]

the rate for a brief period after startup is not a problem.
the high quality gel batts i use want no higher then 14.4v.
i have used them in my work van with no problems.
the biggest determiner of life tends to be how they are treated.
never heard of the brand shown but it looks like other cheapies i see bad in 1 season.
but since i was not the user from new its hard to judge whether its the batteries fault or the user.
plenty of name brands get murdered by clueless endusers too.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
The OP said the battery he wanted to charge was gel. I personally would not use gel in powersports applications.

They have to have a slower charge amps than AGM, and the charge amps in your scooter is not regulated. If it gets too much charge there can be a gas bubble generated, and they do not purge gas bubbles very well with gel electrolyte. They also do not do well at the high current discharge you have when you use the starter motor. Gel success is often not good, and another gel different brand or even same brand will do well. I have never heard a real convincing reason as they why they vary so much.

Rod

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted by kc8adu
the rate for a brief period after startup is not a problem.
the high quality gel batts i use want no higher then 14.4v.
i have used them in my work van with no problems.
the biggest determiner of life tends to be how they are treated.
never heard of the brand shown but it looks like other cheapies i see bad in 1 season.
but since i was not the user from new its hard to judge whether its the batteries fault or the user.
plenty of name brands get murdered by clueless endusers too.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
The OP said the battery he wanted to charge was gel. I personally would not use gel in powersports applications.

They have to have a slower charge amps than AGM, and the charge amps in your scooter is not regulated. If it gets too much charge there can be a gas bubble generated, and they do not purge gas bubbles very well with gel electrolyte. They also do not do well at the high current discharge you have when you use the starter motor. Gel success is often not good, and another gel different brand or even same brand will do well. I have never heard a real convincing reason as they why they vary so much.

Rod


It is a Neptune brand from ebay
It has a little circuit on top where you push a button and it show a green yellow or red light depending on current charge, gimmick for sure.
What brand are you using in your work van?
How did you determine it doesn't want any more than 14.4V is that the alternator output of your van at idle?

 

[kc8adu]

deka/mk
and the spec sheet.
they are 1 year wheelchair pulls.
still good for about 5-6 more years on a ups or solar.
and at least 5 under the hood of a van.
that light might be a gimmick but at least it raises awareness to the clueless battery murderer without a meter.
now whether said person retained the spec sheet and knows how to properly charge it is unknown.
probably not.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by Brybo86
Originally Posted by UncleDave
My standard go to - optimate 6 tm181


flooded, agm, gel, / from 3-240 AH - covers about everything

recovers down to .5 volts

https://tecmate.com/products/optimate6a/


UD, i know you love your chargers from previous threads, what is the lowest charging amps you have seen the optimate 6 output into a small battery?


These chargers can current limit, but generally this is all determined by Ohm's law.

The challenge is that a low enough impedance on a really small battery can fool a charger, and it can provide high enough voltage and current to not be great for the silica thickened gel electrolyte.

For this reason, Id probably want a charger that ai had absolute control to set parameters. Something like the battery minder or a solar where one can set 2A and gel to limit max voltage. In reality 2A is a bit high for my liking for that small a battery, but again, ohms last naturally limits that.

I think the optimate "figures" things out by starting really slow. Ive noticed with it vs other similarly sized chargers I have, the voltage increase at the start is much slower, so It probably "samples" the voltage response early on to gauge impedance, and perhaps throttles from there.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by Brybo86
It it matters when I pulled it out of the shipping box it tested at 13.3 volts.
Seemed high.
I don't remember any of my batteries over 13 , ever


Electrochemically, it's not normal. The fundamental potential of the cells does not result in 13 or 13.3v.

But the double layer capacitance in the battery, essentially, the "surface charge", in a healthy, new, low internal impedance battery, can maintain elevated for extended periods of time when the battery is fully disconnected, so there are no parasitics and very low self-discharge.

 

[kc8adu]

the high voltage is due to the higher specific gravity electrolyte.
this is a way to get a bit better performance at the expense of longevity.
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by Brybo86
It it matters when I pulled it out of the shipping box it tested at 13.3 volts.
Seemed high.
I don't remember any of my batteries over 13 , ever


Electrochemically, it's not normal. The fundamental potential of the cells does not result in 13 or 13.3v.

But the double layer capacitance in the battery, essentially, the "surface charge", in a healthy, new, low internal impedance battery, can maintain elevated for extended periods of time when the battery is fully disconnected, so there are no parasitics and very low self-discharge.