With all the oil filter brands champion labs produces, is it safe to assume they are all carbon copies of each other except of course the pain job. Would a standard brand X champion filter be the same as a standard brand y champion filter, or do they add/remove media, use more/less media for example?
Champion labs...
- Thread starter schwartr88
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no, no, yes
NO. They build to spec., and lots of different ones anywhere from Mobil 1 and K&N to SuperTech Ecores.
BTW, I'm not talking about quality, rather price.
Study teardowns on your particular filter p/n.
BTW, I'm not talking about quality, rather price.
Study teardowns on your particular filter p/n.
I don't think I was clear enough when I asked. If you have a champ made acdelco pf47 and a champ make supertech st3387a (both for a 02 sonoma) would they be copies of each other or would one have more/less media or a better/worse media?
Hope that clears up things.
Hope that clears up things.
Forgot to mention:
for a fair comparison, both filters are "standard" versions (not standard vs. premium like purolator vs. P1)
for a fair comparison, both filters are "standard" versions (not standard vs. premium like purolator vs. P1)
Hey Lonnie, were you in a hurry that night or what?
schwartr88, I'll probably get flamed for saying this but the PF47 is SUPERIOR to the SuperTech ST3387A. Why do I say that? Because if you take the ST filter out of its can, you can wad it up in your hand like toilet paper. The AC Delco by comparison is built like a tank.
I'm going to get in big trouble for saying that.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
There's 'Champ" ... then there's "Champion".
Is Champion Labs the mothership of Champ filters like Supertech, some AC Delco, STP... etc?
Is Champion Labs the mothership of Champ filters like Supertech, some AC Delco, STP... etc?
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It seems odd that 2 comparable filters by the same manufacturer for the same vehicle would be made of different materials. They should have the same specs, but I guess anything is possible.
As a Brand you can spec the media you want. ChampLabs is the most diversified supplier I know of without a brand (Champion Plugs is not this Champ). AC Delco had/has an UltraDuraGuard (UPF52 or something) for Corvette/Hummer with 100% synthetic media.
Even within the ST line it's possible particular filters come from non-Champ mfg. Ecore does come from Champ. WM could switch hit also on a p/n if they could get better price, so inspect each time.
Wix builds for Napa (2 versions) and Carquest. Wix, I understand, builds Amsoil with Donaldson Syntec media.
I use a FL-820S Motorcraft made by Puralator using almost same blend media as their PureONE but the bypass valve is in the base (since Ford may have some rights to this design) while Puralator's version has it in the dome.
Here's a good example of teardown analysis.
http://home.mindspring.com/~cewhite3nc/
Find one or several for your p/n. Or do your 'paper' analysis based on research.
http://home.mindspring.com/~cewhite3nc/
Find one or several for your p/n. Or do your 'paper' analysis based on research.
Thats a nice bit of info, not unlike the other oil filter study, but it does (sort of) prove the point I was alluding to.
"It seems hard to believe that they could all meet the same specs and still be so different."
Plus, as nice as the info is it does not give the important information- micron rating ("I don’t have the means to actually test the media; therefore this is a beauty contest more than an actual performance contest").. I dont know why I am even worrying about what oil filter to use. I wanted a effective filter, but at a decent price. And no matter what filter you choose someone has gone >250k on it and someone else has had their engine "destroyed" by it.
"It seems hard to believe that they could all meet the same specs and still be so different."
Plus, as nice as the info is it does not give the important information- micron rating ("I don’t have the means to actually test the media; therefore this is a beauty contest more than an actual performance contest").. I dont know why I am even worrying about what oil filter to use. I wanted a effective filter, but at a decent price. And no matter what filter you choose someone has gone >250k on it and someone else has had their engine "destroyed" by it.
That analysis is done with a very heavy Ford bias. Not to mention the absence of micron ratings. It is a very good reference to have a look inside of the cans though.
I just decided to go with the ST. I love the P1, but as a college student and I am trying to get accepted to the College of Vet. Med. every bit of money I can save will help. I hardly doubt using the P1 (or other high efficiency filter) will drastically, or at all, lengthen the life of my truck.
Maybe this will help with your problem.
No major oil filter manufacturer will put their name on a filter that does not, as a minimum, meet the minimun requirements set down by the vehicle/engine manufacturer.
Will they make a sub standard filter for a paying customer? Yes. Will they warranty that filters performance NO!! so as a rule of thumb, if the marketer/distributor of the filter will warrant the filter to meet or exceed the OEM specs, and will provide that warranty in writing. get the least expensive or the most expensive filter your pocket book can afford based on what YOU think is correct. And follow the vehicle manufacturers instructions at a minimum and you'll have many trouble free miles on the odometer. Try and streach the OCI or filter change to far on a filter that is not spec'd to go that long, and the repair bill is yours. not the filter providers.
No major oil filter manufacturer will put their name on a filter that does not, as a minimum, meet the minimun requirements set down by the vehicle/engine manufacturer.
Will they make a sub standard filter for a paying customer? Yes. Will they warranty that filters performance NO!! so as a rule of thumb, if the marketer/distributor of the filter will warrant the filter to meet or exceed the OEM specs, and will provide that warranty in writing. get the least expensive or the most expensive filter your pocket book can afford based on what YOU think is correct. And follow the vehicle manufacturers instructions at a minimum and you'll have many trouble free miles on the odometer. Try and streach the OCI or filter change to far on a filter that is not spec'd to go that long, and the repair bill is yours. not the filter providers.
Let me simplify; Puralator makes PremiumPlus and PureOne as their two overlapping lines. They are made differently and meet different spec's even for same p/n.
Why would it be hard to believe a diverse manufature like ChampLabs would NOT change media between a K&N and a M1 , and and Ecore filter. They meet different spec's but trying to nail them down is hard since mfg's don't provide lots of info.
Finally, lets consider two examples concerning warranty. Assume the filter has a bypass valve like most and the engine is in good condition, no problems, correct oil.
1) Case 1 - No Media. 100% of the oil gets no filtering. Result after 5000 miles ? Probabaly nothing much changed on the engine slightly high wear than normal.
2) Case 1 100% blocked media. Filter runs in constant bypass and 100% of oil gets no filter. Same result as above.
1) Case 1 - No Media. 100% of the oil gets no filtering. Result after 5000 miles ? Probabaly nothing much changed on the engine slightly high wear than normal.
2) Case 1 100% blocked media. Filter runs in constant bypass and 100% of oil gets no filter. Same result as above.
A question on that MotorCraft. I use an FL400s I believe for a Ford Taurus. I have been reading about the by-pass valve posts. If I get a Napa Gold 1516 I believe for the Taurus, will their by-pass be the same specs as the MotorCraft or do they put their by pass in another area?? I am looking at either the MC or the Napa....And was just wondering
robl:
I haven't seen a NG 1516 to confirm this, but the WIX (who make NAPA Gold filters) version of the FL820S has the relief valve in the dome end (as opposed to the Ford-spec'd base end), so I would assume the NG 1516 does the same. Personally, I don't think you can go wrong using either the MC or the NG filter...they are both highly respected here.
I haven't seen a NG 1516 to confirm this, but the WIX (who make NAPA Gold filters) version of the FL820S has the relief valve in the dome end (as opposed to the Ford-spec'd base end), so I would assume the NG 1516 does the same. Personally, I don't think you can go wrong using either the MC or the NG filter...they are both highly respected here.
Wix lists the specifications on their website.
You can look up your filter (enter your motorcraft number) and they will list the filter(s) that they recommend.
They list the bypass valve open pressure for each filter.
I looked FL400 up on there......Wix 51516 comes up (Wix number....Napa number, I think drops the leading "5"), and the bypass open is from 8-11 PSI.
I have been using this filter for some time on my '96 Windstar.
As mentioned, BOTH the Motorcraft and Wix (also sold as Napa Gold) are excellent filters.
You can look up your filter (enter your motorcraft number) and they will list the filter(s) that they recommend.
They list the bypass valve open pressure for each filter.
I looked FL400 up on there......Wix 51516 comes up (Wix number....Napa number, I think drops the leading "5"), and the bypass open is from 8-11 PSI.
I have been using this filter for some time on my '96 Windstar.
As mentioned, BOTH the Motorcraft and Wix (also sold as Napa Gold) are excellent filters.
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