Just a few points I wanted to make about how people are arguing over the Toyota thing. I'm not debating the facts of the issue here; just talking about the way people are talking about it.
1. When someone says you're wrong, that doesn't always mean they're defending your enemy.
A lot of people seem to have this attitude of "if you're not with ME, you're against US." That seems a bit arrogant, to be honest. If someone disagrees with you or what you're saying, that doesn't mean they're taking sides against your favorite team. They could even be on your side in general. It's just that they don't like what you're doing in that moment.
"You're wrong" and "they're right" are two VERY different things. If you're bashing on Toyota and someone says your argument against is full of holes, that doesn't mean they're defending Toyota. It just means they find YOUR arguments fallacious.
2. Fixing problems as they are found is NOT the same thing as changing the story.
Toyota found one problem (the floor mats) and they issued a recall. Then they found another problem (the pedal assemblies) and they issued a recall for that. So many people, regrettably even on BITOG, have used this to accuse Toyota of trying to sweep "THE REAL PROBLEM" under the rug. Even if the root cause does turn out to be somewhere else, the fact remains that the floor mats and the pedals were troublesome and needed to be fixed.
Yes, Toyota did sweep things under the rug. We have plenty of other evidence for that. Let's focus on that stuff (which is FAR worse IMO) instead of skewering them for the recalls they did issue.
3. Complaints are allegations. Nothing more.
So many people are parroting the NHTSA's number of unintended acceleration complaints as if it's an exact quantification of the problem. It's not. It's just the number of people who have called the NHTSA to complain. We all know we can't count on people to pay attention while driving. We also know we can't count on people to be honest about their own mistakes. How can we count on them to give an accurate account of how their cars operate? These things need to be investigated. Until the NHTSA, or Toyota, or someone makes an objective assessment, the number of complaints is pretty much meaningless.
4. Attaching numbers to your argument doesn't make you more right.
The numbers have to mean what you think they mean. If they don't, then you are wrong. Period. Your opponents don't necessarily have to cite counter-numbers. If they can show that your numbers are incorrect or irrelevant, that's enough.
/rant
Now, let's see how many accusations of Toyota/import fanboyism I get. I'm not even going to argue, just count.
1. When someone says you're wrong, that doesn't always mean they're defending your enemy.
A lot of people seem to have this attitude of "if you're not with ME, you're against US." That seems a bit arrogant, to be honest. If someone disagrees with you or what you're saying, that doesn't mean they're taking sides against your favorite team. They could even be on your side in general. It's just that they don't like what you're doing in that moment.
"You're wrong" and "they're right" are two VERY different things. If you're bashing on Toyota and someone says your argument against is full of holes, that doesn't mean they're defending Toyota. It just means they find YOUR arguments fallacious.
2. Fixing problems as they are found is NOT the same thing as changing the story.
Toyota found one problem (the floor mats) and they issued a recall. Then they found another problem (the pedal assemblies) and they issued a recall for that. So many people, regrettably even on BITOG, have used this to accuse Toyota of trying to sweep "THE REAL PROBLEM" under the rug. Even if the root cause does turn out to be somewhere else, the fact remains that the floor mats and the pedals were troublesome and needed to be fixed.
Yes, Toyota did sweep things under the rug. We have plenty of other evidence for that. Let's focus on that stuff (which is FAR worse IMO) instead of skewering them for the recalls they did issue.
3. Complaints are allegations. Nothing more.
So many people are parroting the NHTSA's number of unintended acceleration complaints as if it's an exact quantification of the problem. It's not. It's just the number of people who have called the NHTSA to complain. We all know we can't count on people to pay attention while driving. We also know we can't count on people to be honest about their own mistakes. How can we count on them to give an accurate account of how their cars operate? These things need to be investigated. Until the NHTSA, or Toyota, or someone makes an objective assessment, the number of complaints is pretty much meaningless.
4. Attaching numbers to your argument doesn't make you more right.
The numbers have to mean what you think they mean. If they don't, then you are wrong. Period. Your opponents don't necessarily have to cite counter-numbers. If they can show that your numbers are incorrect or irrelevant, that's enough.
/rant
Now, let's see how many accusations of Toyota/import fanboyism I get. I'm not even going to argue, just count.
