no idea if this question belongs in this section. any thoughts on using a catch can on a 5.7 hemi engine? tks all
catch can
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They sound like a good idea, and the pics/vids of the oil [censored] they catch are enticing... but engines go 100's of 1000's of miles without them these days. I looked into adding one to our ecoboost, but even there it didn't seem like it offered anything more than a theoretical benefit.
YMMV.
YMMV.
Originally Posted By: buck91
They sound like a good idea, and the pics/vids of the oil [censored] they catch are enticing... but engines go 100's of 1000's of miles without them these days.
YMMV.
+1
They sound like a good idea, and the pics/vids of the oil [censored] they catch are enticing... but engines go 100's of 1000's of miles without them these days.
YMMV.
+1
Spraying oil vapors onto intake valves and combustion chambers will lead to carbon buildup. Yes cars go hundreds of thousands even million mile runs without a catch can.
I myself would like to see a video of valves and pistons before using a catch can then about 10K miles after using one..to see if removing the oil vapors burns the carbon off through normal usage.
I like this one and will probably install it on my high mileage 5.3 just to see what it catches..if its not major i will probably uninstall.
I myself would like to see a video of valves and pistons before using a catch can then about 10K miles after using one..to see if removing the oil vapors burns the carbon off through normal usage.
I like this one and will probably install it on my high mileage 5.3 just to see what it catches..if its not major i will probably uninstall.
I have run one on my 5.7 charger after enough oil vapors softened the upper intake manifold gaskets at 10k mileage. I wasn't going to run it on my Tahoe but while cleaning the throttle body. I found a large blob of oil/water mix sitting underneath the intake manifold PCV fitting. Now that blob(winter months) so to speak now ends up in the catch can!! Win/Win in my book.
When those that question why catch can's would be necessary, I point them to the newer heavy duty commercial truck engine OEM's. While the auto/pickup OEM's haven't quite caught up to the 21st century, the big engine folks figured things out how a filter setups were needed on their engines when they were finally made to have closed crankcase systems in 2007. And those filtration systems that the heavy engine OEM's include as part of the design right from the factory are pretty elaborate setups. Here is the replacement filter unit for the Cummins ISX 15L......
You can see the filtration unit on the ISX in this photo. It is the box looking setup on the upper front of of the left side just in front of the intake.
I have catch can setups on my personal vehicles. My 2006 Cadillac and my 2015 Silverado 2500. Seeing is believing what they capture.
You can see the filtration unit on the ISX in this photo. It is the box looking setup on the upper front of of the left side just in front of the intake.
I have catch can setups on my personal vehicles. My 2006 Cadillac and my 2015 Silverado 2500. Seeing is believing what they capture.
Diesels and gassers have very different crankcase venting environments, both fundamentally and in terms of their emissions systems designs. Whether or not carbon buildup in the intake becomes a problem depends on numerous factors. Some engine designs are more prone to it than others.
Catch cans are not usually a bad idea, but whether or not it is is a great idea depends on your particular vehicles propensity towards CBU.
Catch cans are not usually a bad idea, but whether or not it is is a great idea depends on your particular vehicles propensity towards CBU.
Here's a typical drain contents from my two cans for a 5k mile summer interval. The dark thin layer on top is oil from the PCV air intake on the valve cover that goes to the pre turbo intake. The rest is from the can spliced in between the PCV valve and intake manifold. Both cans are in relatively cool areas next to the radiator and away from the engine compartment heat. Also both cans are located below the source and are plumbed with the hoses gong downhill.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
When those that question why catch can's would be necessary, I point them to the newer heavy duty commercial truck engine OEM's. While the auto/pickup OEM's haven't quite caught up to the 21st century, the big engine folks figured things out how a filter setups were needed on their engines when they were finally made to have closed crankcase systems in 2007. And those filtration systems that the heavy engine OEM's include as part of the design right from the factory are pretty elaborate setups. Here is the replacement filter unit for the Cummins ISX 15L......
LOL. Pull up TSB150147 over on QuickServe. As well, given that you're correlating it to catch cans installed on cars, you apparently don't understand how that system works:
Since you additionally bring up GM gas engines, here's some info on the subject:
"The Stingray was evaluated with over one million development miles on 200 captured test fleet cars. There are tens of thousands of direct injection vehicles on the road from General Motors alone. During the evaluation hundreds of engines were literally torn down in to part piles and evaluated. There are hundreds of thousands of LSx family of motors (where part of this catch can hype started) on the roads and the many of these motors are running well past 250,000 miles without a catch can.
The cars have a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty and that includes mechanical failure of the engine. Trust me when I tell you that there are not reams of data (not even pages of data) on cars coming up lame because of oil at the MAF. It just isn't the problem that the "internet" makes it out to be. When you ask a GM Powertrain engineer about a catch can the reply is that the only thing you get is added weight.
In looking at the extra effort and added cost that went in to the Stingray, do you really believe for one second that if a $20.00 part attached to the engine would improve reliability, limit warranty claims and replacement costs, that GM wouldn't have put it on if it was necessary as part of their evaluation?
Every single GM engineer that I have spoken with told me in one form or another that a catch can is predominately a "gimmick" device created by tuners looking to make a few extra bucks on their engine modifications.
As a by-product of the PCV system, excess oil vapor is recycled to prevent it from leaching out in to the environment. It will condense back in to liquid if the temperature and environmental conditions are right. A catch can is an oil separator device. It allows the heavier oil in liquid to condense in the bottom of the can and only pass the air (gases) back. This is basically the same thing that is happening at the front of the MAF where most of the oil can be found.
The theory is that this oil in the intake system will collect on the valves and in the cylinders and cause excess carbon deposits. The catch can will reduce (not eliminate) oil pooling in the MAF.
Where the plan breaks down is that there aren't thousands of cars detonating because of the oil. As I told you on the phone, This isn't new. The engines are designed to deal with a quantity of oil mist presented via the intake.
You asked what I should tell the customer, my answer is I'm not sure because I don't know what his question is. If the question is is this normal? The answer is yes. If the question is should I put a catch can on? The answer is what ever makes you feel better. If the question is do I need a catch can? The answer is a resounding no. If the reply is that they saw it on the internet, apologize politely and tell them virtually every thread about it has started with a vendor selling a product or a consumer that was fooled by the hype and trying to make themselves feel better about their purchase by getting others to agree with them.
If he has concerns about his condition he should take the car to his dealer for evaluation.
Here is my standard response to the dozens of emails I get each year with a link to a thread like you posted (and often, that very same thread).
Simply stated, absolutely not on the catch can. It simply isn’t warranted for any street driven car. We can talk in more detail about it tomorrow and Dan will appreciate it as I’ve all ready had this conversation with him as well. Since the advent of the PCV system, cars have released some oil in places where it wouldn’t normally have gone in a fully sealed system. It ends up in vapor which condenses back in to liquid form in the intake path. As a result of that, the system is designed to ingest and subsequently digest some extra oil. Higher revving produces more oil and repeated higher revving (drag racer, track duty car, etc.) would be in the realm of uses that I might consider adding the can. Daily driving, occasional back road romp or stop light to stop light burst, not so much.
With all of that said, they won’t hurt anything. For those that don’t want to take my word for it, can feel comfortable adding it but it won’t make an appreciable difference in the life of the motor or the efficiency of the system.
If you dig deep enough in to forum information about catch cans, all roads generally lead back to a performance tuner, aftermarket part supplier or fabricator who has a vested interest in selling catch cans."
http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/185377-still-dont-think-you-need-a-catch-can/?p=1785810
When those that question why catch can's would be necessary, I point them to the newer heavy duty commercial truck engine OEM's. While the auto/pickup OEM's haven't quite caught up to the 21st century, the big engine folks figured things out how a filter setups were needed on their engines when they were finally made to have closed crankcase systems in 2007. And those filtration systems that the heavy engine OEM's include as part of the design right from the factory are pretty elaborate setups. Here is the replacement filter unit for the Cummins ISX 15L......
LOL. Pull up TSB150147 over on QuickServe. As well, given that you're correlating it to catch cans installed on cars, you apparently don't understand how that system works:
Since you additionally bring up GM gas engines, here's some info on the subject:
"The Stingray was evaluated with over one million development miles on 200 captured test fleet cars. There are tens of thousands of direct injection vehicles on the road from General Motors alone. During the evaluation hundreds of engines were literally torn down in to part piles and evaluated. There are hundreds of thousands of LSx family of motors (where part of this catch can hype started) on the roads and the many of these motors are running well past 250,000 miles without a catch can.
The cars have a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty and that includes mechanical failure of the engine. Trust me when I tell you that there are not reams of data (not even pages of data) on cars coming up lame because of oil at the MAF. It just isn't the problem that the "internet" makes it out to be. When you ask a GM Powertrain engineer about a catch can the reply is that the only thing you get is added weight.
In looking at the extra effort and added cost that went in to the Stingray, do you really believe for one second that if a $20.00 part attached to the engine would improve reliability, limit warranty claims and replacement costs, that GM wouldn't have put it on if it was necessary as part of their evaluation?
Every single GM engineer that I have spoken with told me in one form or another that a catch can is predominately a "gimmick" device created by tuners looking to make a few extra bucks on their engine modifications.
As a by-product of the PCV system, excess oil vapor is recycled to prevent it from leaching out in to the environment. It will condense back in to liquid if the temperature and environmental conditions are right. A catch can is an oil separator device. It allows the heavier oil in liquid to condense in the bottom of the can and only pass the air (gases) back. This is basically the same thing that is happening at the front of the MAF where most of the oil can be found.
The theory is that this oil in the intake system will collect on the valves and in the cylinders and cause excess carbon deposits. The catch can will reduce (not eliminate) oil pooling in the MAF.
Where the plan breaks down is that there aren't thousands of cars detonating because of the oil. As I told you on the phone, This isn't new. The engines are designed to deal with a quantity of oil mist presented via the intake.
You asked what I should tell the customer, my answer is I'm not sure because I don't know what his question is. If the question is is this normal? The answer is yes. If the question is should I put a catch can on? The answer is what ever makes you feel better. If the question is do I need a catch can? The answer is a resounding no. If the reply is that they saw it on the internet, apologize politely and tell them virtually every thread about it has started with a vendor selling a product or a consumer that was fooled by the hype and trying to make themselves feel better about their purchase by getting others to agree with them.
If he has concerns about his condition he should take the car to his dealer for evaluation.
Here is my standard response to the dozens of emails I get each year with a link to a thread like you posted (and often, that very same thread).
Simply stated, absolutely not on the catch can. It simply isn’t warranted for any street driven car. We can talk in more detail about it tomorrow and Dan will appreciate it as I’ve all ready had this conversation with him as well. Since the advent of the PCV system, cars have released some oil in places where it wouldn’t normally have gone in a fully sealed system. It ends up in vapor which condenses back in to liquid form in the intake path. As a result of that, the system is designed to ingest and subsequently digest some extra oil. Higher revving produces more oil and repeated higher revving (drag racer, track duty car, etc.) would be in the realm of uses that I might consider adding the can. Daily driving, occasional back road romp or stop light to stop light burst, not so much.
With all of that said, they won’t hurt anything. For those that don’t want to take my word for it, can feel comfortable adding it but it won’t make an appreciable difference in the life of the motor or the efficiency of the system.
If you dig deep enough in to forum information about catch cans, all roads generally lead back to a performance tuner, aftermarket part supplier or fabricator who has a vested interest in selling catch cans."
http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/185377-still-dont-think-you-need-a-catch-can/?p=1785810
Youtube is littered with tutorials on cleaning your IAC (Idle Air Control) valve.
While some people will argue that a catch can isn't necessary, that doesn't mean that it isn't helpful at keeping your IAC valve (as well as other benefits) clean, right? I have a Toyota Tacoma and they're pretty well known for having problems such as rough idle when the motor is warm to, sometimes, not even wanting to start when the motor is warm and it's often due to a gunked up IAC...which a catch can will help with.
Yes? No?
Ed
While some people will argue that a catch can isn't necessary, that doesn't mean that it isn't helpful at keeping your IAC valve (as well as other benefits) clean, right? I have a Toyota Tacoma and they're pretty well known for having problems such as rough idle when the motor is warm to, sometimes, not even wanting to start when the motor is warm and it's often due to a gunked up IAC...which a catch can will help with.
Yes? No?
Ed
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
LOL. Pull up TSB150147 over on QuickServe. As well, given that you're correlating it to catch cans installed on cars, you apparently don't understand how that system works:
Since you additionally bring up GM gas engines, here's some info on the subject:
"
As a by-product of the PCV system, excess oil vapor is recycled to prevent it from leaching out in to the environment. It will condense back in to liquid if the temperature and environmental conditions are right. A catch can is an oil separator device. It allows the heavier oil in liquid to condense in the bottom of the can and only pass the air (gases) back. This is basically the same thing that is happening at the front of the MAF where most of the oil can be found.
The theory is that this oil in the intake system will collect on the valves and in the cylinders and cause excess carbon deposits. The catch can will reduce (not eliminate) oil pooling in the MAF.
Where the plan breaks down is that there aren't thousands of cars detonating because of the oil. As I told you on the phone, This isn't new. The engines are designed to deal with a quantity of oil mist presented via the intake.
You asked what I should tell the customer, my answer is I'm not sure because I don't know what his question is. If the question is is this normal? The answer is yes. If the question is should I put a catch can on? The answer is what ever makes you feel better. If the question is do I need a catch can? The answer is a resounding no. If the reply is that they saw it on the internet, apologize politely and tell them virtually every thread about it has started with a vendor selling a product or a consumer that was fooled by the hype and trying to make themselves feel better about their purchase by getting others to agree with them.
If he has concerns about his condition he should take the car to his dealer for evaluation.
Here is my standard response to the dozens of emails I get each year with a link to a thread like you posted (and often, that very same thread).
Simply stated, absolutely not on the catch can. It simply isn’t warranted for any street driven car. We can talk in more detail about it tomorrow and Dan will appreciate it as I’ve all ready had this conversation with him as well. Since the advent of the PCV system, cars have released some oil in places where it wouldn’t normally have gone in a fully sealed system. It ends up in vapor which condenses back in to liquid form in the intake path. As a result of that, the system is designed to ingest and subsequently digest some extra oil. Higher revving produces more oil and repeated higher revving (drag racer, track duty car, etc.) would be in the realm of uses that I might consider adding the can. Daily driving, occasional back road romp or stop light to stop light burst, not so much.
With all of that said, they won’t hurt anything. For those that don’t want to take my word for it, can feel comfortable adding it but it won’t make an appreciable difference in the life of the motor or the efficiency of the system.
If you dig deep enough in to forum information about catch cans, all roads generally lead back to a performance tuner, aftermarket part supplier or fabricator who has a vested interest in selling catch cans."
http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/185377-still-dont-think-you-need-a-catch-can/?p=1785810
I understand this was a cut and paste from another site and from a GM engineer. But we are not talking about about oil pooling on the MAF sensor. A catch can installed on the PCV side will do nothing to reduce pooling of oil on the MAF. I call the original article [censored]!! Seeing that this is an oil based site. Engines go hundreds of thousands of miles on conventional oil, wrong grades, long/short drain intervals, with/without UOA and synthetic oils without issues. Same holds true for a catch can. if you run one great, if not that's fine too.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
LOL. Pull up TSB150147 over on QuickServe. As well, given that you're correlating it to catch cans installed on cars, you apparently don't understand how that system works:
Since you additionally bring up GM gas engines, here's some info on the subject:
"
As a by-product of the PCV system, excess oil vapor is recycled to prevent it from leaching out in to the environment. It will condense back in to liquid if the temperature and environmental conditions are right. A catch can is an oil separator device. It allows the heavier oil in liquid to condense in the bottom of the can and only pass the air (gases) back. This is basically the same thing that is happening at the front of the MAF where most of the oil can be found.
The theory is that this oil in the intake system will collect on the valves and in the cylinders and cause excess carbon deposits. The catch can will reduce (not eliminate) oil pooling in the MAF.
Where the plan breaks down is that there aren't thousands of cars detonating because of the oil. As I told you on the phone, This isn't new. The engines are designed to deal with a quantity of oil mist presented via the intake.
You asked what I should tell the customer, my answer is I'm not sure because I don't know what his question is. If the question is is this normal? The answer is yes. If the question is should I put a catch can on? The answer is what ever makes you feel better. If the question is do I need a catch can? The answer is a resounding no. If the reply is that they saw it on the internet, apologize politely and tell them virtually every thread about it has started with a vendor selling a product or a consumer that was fooled by the hype and trying to make themselves feel better about their purchase by getting others to agree with them.
If he has concerns about his condition he should take the car to his dealer for evaluation.
Here is my standard response to the dozens of emails I get each year with a link to a thread like you posted (and often, that very same thread).
Simply stated, absolutely not on the catch can. It simply isn’t warranted for any street driven car. We can talk in more detail about it tomorrow and Dan will appreciate it as I’ve all ready had this conversation with him as well. Since the advent of the PCV system, cars have released some oil in places where it wouldn’t normally have gone in a fully sealed system. It ends up in vapor which condenses back in to liquid form in the intake path. As a result of that, the system is designed to ingest and subsequently digest some extra oil. Higher revving produces more oil and repeated higher revving (drag racer, track duty car, etc.) would be in the realm of uses that I might consider adding the can. Daily driving, occasional back road romp or stop light to stop light burst, not so much.
With all of that said, they won’t hurt anything. For those that don’t want to take my word for it, can feel comfortable adding it but it won’t make an appreciable difference in the life of the motor or the efficiency of the system.
If you dig deep enough in to forum information about catch cans, all roads generally lead back to a performance tuner, aftermarket part supplier or fabricator who has a vested interest in selling catch cans."
http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/185377-still-dont-think-you-need-a-catch-can/?p=1785810
I understand this was a cut and paste from another site and from a GM engineer. But we are not talking about about oil pooling on the MAF sensor. A catch can installed on the PCV side will do nothing to reduce pooling of oil on the MAF. I call the original article [censored]!! Seeing that this is an oil based site. Engines go hundreds of thousands of miles on conventional oil, wrong grades, long/short drain intervals, with/without UOA and synthetic oils without issues. Same holds true for a catch can. if you run one great, if not that's fine too.
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Is this problem made worse by very short tri driving and engine doesn't fully warm up ?
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