I've been here for a few days and it seems nobody likes castrol syntec. I understand the group 3 thing and all but does this oil suck this bad? I looked for an analasysis with syntec and there are none. Is this oil that bad in performance versus M1? Or does it not perform long OCI? Or because people think it's too expensive for a group 3. It just amazes me with this huge ad campaign for castrol syntec on TV that the product is this bad. If it is this bad why don't they change the formulation? Someone from syntec must know it's bad. No gc replies i'm only asking about syntec.
Castrol syntec...why so hated?
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tnt31 nailed it.
As far as the performance of Syntec, my guess is that for a non-extended OCI, it's as good as anything else, regardless of Group #.
As far as the performance of Syntec, my guess is that for a non-extended OCI, it's as good as anything else, regardless of Group #.
Here is a good description of what has happened as taken from one of the Amsoil numerous websites.
""Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil", eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70% by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.
Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "Worlds Leading Synthetic Motor Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims.
The notion behind synthetic motor oils as we've known them is an elegant one. Instead of relying on the cocktail of hydrocarbons contained in crude oil, why not go into the laboratory and build the perfect base stock from scratch, molecule by molecule, and builds it till it gets 10-carbon molecules, then combines three of those to form PAO. The result is a fluid more stable than the usual base oils derived from crude. It keeps flowing at low temperatures. It's more resistant to boiling off, and more resistant to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged exposure to high temperatures.
Still, there's more than one road to the point B of improved stability. Petroleum refiners in recent years have learned how to break apart certain undesirable molecules - wax, for example, which causes thickening of oil at low temperatures- and transform them by chemical reaction into helpful molecules. These new hydroisomerized base oils, in the view of some industry participants provided properties similar to PAO's but only cost half as much," Lubricants World reported.
The argument before NAD tiptoed around the obvious- does the consumer get four bucks' worth of value from each quart of synthetic oil?- and plunged straight into deep semantics. Mobil's experts said "synthetic" traditionally meant big molecules built up from small ones. Castrol's side held out for a looser description, defining "synthetic" as "the product of an intended chemical reaction."
What do unbiased sources say? It turns out that the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and the American Petroleum Institute (API) both have technical standards covering motor oils, and both of these organizations in the '90's backed away from their old definitions of "synthetic," leaving lots of room for new interpretations.
In the end, NAD decided that the evidence constitutes a reasonable basis for the claim that Castrol Syntec, as currently formulated, is a synthetic motor oil, said Lubricants World.""
So, with the advances in the basestock technologies the performance gap in between the hydrocracked Group III and PAO based oils has significantly narrowed or even disappered.
Still the Mobil 1 fans are mostly a bunch that won't admit the defeat and continue to hate Castrol for changing the rules of the game even though they are the ones who are benefiting from the situation since there is a greater choise among the high quality oils which also helps keep the prices in check.
""Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil", eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70% by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.
Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "Worlds Leading Synthetic Motor Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims.
The notion behind synthetic motor oils as we've known them is an elegant one. Instead of relying on the cocktail of hydrocarbons contained in crude oil, why not go into the laboratory and build the perfect base stock from scratch, molecule by molecule, and builds it till it gets 10-carbon molecules, then combines three of those to form PAO. The result is a fluid more stable than the usual base oils derived from crude. It keeps flowing at low temperatures. It's more resistant to boiling off, and more resistant to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged exposure to high temperatures.
Still, there's more than one road to the point B of improved stability. Petroleum refiners in recent years have learned how to break apart certain undesirable molecules - wax, for example, which causes thickening of oil at low temperatures- and transform them by chemical reaction into helpful molecules. These new hydroisomerized base oils, in the view of some industry participants provided properties similar to PAO's but only cost half as much," Lubricants World reported.
The argument before NAD tiptoed around the obvious- does the consumer get four bucks' worth of value from each quart of synthetic oil?- and plunged straight into deep semantics. Mobil's experts said "synthetic" traditionally meant big molecules built up from small ones. Castrol's side held out for a looser description, defining "synthetic" as "the product of an intended chemical reaction."
What do unbiased sources say? It turns out that the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and the American Petroleum Institute (API) both have technical standards covering motor oils, and both of these organizations in the '90's backed away from their old definitions of "synthetic," leaving lots of room for new interpretations.
In the end, NAD decided that the evidence constitutes a reasonable basis for the claim that Castrol Syntec, as currently formulated, is a synthetic motor oil, said Lubricants World.""
So, with the advances in the basestock technologies the performance gap in between the hydrocracked Group III and PAO based oils has significantly narrowed or even disappered.
Still the Mobil 1 fans are mostly a bunch that won't admit the defeat and continue to hate Castrol for changing the rules of the game even though they are the ones who are benefiting from the situation since there is a greater choise among the high quality oils which also helps keep the prices in check.
It seems that OCI are dramitically different between different oils on this site. As far as price, the syntec in my area is the exact same price as synpower, penzoil platinum, and q power. The mobil1 is 50cents higher. It seems that syntec is ragged on because it's a group 3 oil. It must have a poor blend or not perform well in the lab. There must be proof that it doesn't last as long as the others to draw such ill will. I have always used mobil1 not because i knew it was good but because i heard it was good. I just thought syntec was always up there with mobil.
Vad..Interesting. It seems that from what you say Castrol syntec is a very good oil. Though since it went to war so to speak with mobil and won it's case the impression with enthusiasts is that syntec must be inferior. It seems though that if mobil 1 is better it's only by a margain that the normal user will never notice.
sounds like mobil is just mad about not finding the elves first and couldnt bribe them to leave castrol.
anyone can find fault with any oil. but do they know why they hate it or is it just because they heard it was bad. amazing at how many people jump on the band wagon just because enought poeple says the same thing and not knowing what they are talking about. sometimes word of mouth can be a bad thing
anyone can find fault with any oil. but do they know why they hate it or is it just because they heard it was bad. amazing at how many people jump on the band wagon just because enought poeple says the same thing and not knowing what they are talking about. sometimes word of mouth can be a bad thing
Well the PAO oils are continued to be developed too even though the gap is getting smaller and smaller.
As the industry insiders are saying here on BITOG the basestocks don't really play a crucial role anymore. It's the quality of all of the ingredients plus their unique combination in the blend is what will determine the ultimate properties of the oil.
As the industry insiders are saying here on BITOG the basestocks don't really play a crucial role anymore. It's the quality of all of the ingredients plus their unique combination in the blend is what will determine the ultimate properties of the oil.
I can see why people are against castrol for their use of the word synthetic. Also it seems that mobil1 5w30 has changed it's additives about a 100 times in the last 5 years. Obviously i'm kidding but not many bash mobil1 for changin it's mixture often. I got that info by reading all for hours. This site is addicting for some reason. I'm sure syntec is a great oil. I'm sure mobil1 is a great oil. I myself will not push my oil to see just how far i can get with it. Wheather i use syntec or mobil1 i will change it right around 5000 miles anyhow. Do i need to pay the extra cash or synthetic? Maybe not but i use it because i know it's better for my engine.
posted by speedtc:
Castrol Syntec UOA
there are many UOAs for the non GC Syntec in the UOA area, use the search function.
Here is a UOA for Syntec (non GC) that is very good:
Castrol Syntec UOA
there are many UOAs for the non GC Syntec in the UOA area, use the search function.
The reason people were(are) mad at Castrol is because the company used a different basestock and charged the same price as if they were using the PAO basestock (the info vad posted explains this), changing additives is not the same thing, plus with the changes in oil specs, for i.e. going from a SL oil to a SM oil, additives may have to change, not the same thing as using a different basestock in the lubricant.
Bill,
Looking at this a little deeper reveals some facts that don't make this run so wonderful. The 3.5 quart sump is good, but it is only a 1.0 liter engine. My goodness any oil with 1.5 quarts of makeup would look good. In my opinion this is no great test of any oil but I do understand your opinion and it is valid!
GregH
Looking at this a little deeper reveals some facts that don't make this run so wonderful. The 3.5 quart sump is good, but it is only a 1.0 liter engine. My goodness any oil with 1.5 quarts of makeup would look good. In my opinion this is no great test of any oil but I do understand your opinion and it is valid!
GregH
I disagree with you Greg, the oil was in use for 10,000 miles plus this car has 240,000 miles on the engine!
I might try castrol syntec for the next few changes instead of mobil1. The stuff is on sale.
Thanks vad
Syntec 5w-50 is an awesome oil. 5w-40 carries many mfg specs, 10w-40 carries A3 and the 0w-30 is World-class. Consider the price of a more generic 5w-40 G-III oil, Shell RTS, maybe a buck less. Does the R&D plus advertising costs associated with a top-tier company competing Worldwide with Mogul Oil amount to a buck a quart? Very likely.
I just bought some 5w20 syntec and i'll try it in my focus.
Bill,
Even tho it is 10000 miles. Look at the small displacement, large sump and so forth. Compare that to other UOA's of relative length and look at the factors that degrade oil, such as amount of fuel consumed during the use period and such. The 1 liter is miniscule as compared to the v-8's and larger v-6's. It simply does not produce the byproduct volume and so should be able to run longer UOA's. You can disagree but produce the facts to back up your view and I would be happy to listen or even change my view!
GregH
Even tho it is 10000 miles. Look at the small displacement, large sump and so forth. Compare that to other UOA's of relative length and look at the factors that degrade oil, such as amount of fuel consumed during the use period and such. The 1 liter is miniscule as compared to the v-8's and larger v-6's. It simply does not produce the byproduct volume and so should be able to run longer UOA's. You can disagree but produce the facts to back up your view and I would be happy to listen or even change my view!
GregH
Greg,
I would be happy with that UOA of the Syntec I listed above,
it is not the best UOA but it is not a bad UOA.
speedtc was looking for a UOA for Syntec,
I provided a link for him to review.
3.5 quarts is not a large dump.
Regarding comparing this UOA to UOAs for V8 engines,
larger engines will have more blow-by but the smaller engines turn more rpms per minute.
If you do not like Syntec, fine, I would be happy with this UOA.
Merry Christmas Greg
I would be happy with that UOA of the Syntec I listed above,
it is not the best UOA but it is not a bad UOA.
speedtc was looking for a UOA for Syntec,
I provided a link for him to review.
3.5 quarts is not a large dump.
Regarding comparing this UOA to UOAs for V8 engines,
larger engines will have more blow-by but the smaller engines turn more rpms per minute.
If you do not like Syntec, fine, I would be happy with this UOA.
Merry Christmas Greg
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