CARB vs. Federal emissions standards

[Scott_Tucker]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
You don't need expensive "CARB" parts on a "CARB" vehicle registered outside of CA. SOME help for those who are hooked into buying a CARB car in a state that doesn't require it. Outfits like Rockauto will tell you what non-Carb parts will work on a car "built to" CARB specs. Some parts are HALF price. Bless Florida, NO enviroweenie requirement at all. Just a safety check.


I like the fact that California has taken steps to clean up the air. If you saw our air quality in the 1980s you would know why. However, CARB is a bloated buerocracy.

What I don't like about California is that we have no safety inspection. You could literally be driving around with no brakes and no one would say anything. But if your car is polluting you can't renew your registration. I can't even remember how many times I've worked on cars with no brakes and bald tires with child seats in the back and the only thing the customer wanted fixed was the radio. It not only edangers their lives but everyone on the roads lives.

 

[NateDN10]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
What I don't like about California is that we have no safety inspection. You could literally be driving around with no brakes and no one would say anything. But if your car is polluting you can't renew your registration. I can't even remember how many times I've worked on cars with no brakes and bald tires with child seats in the back and the only thing the customer wanted fixed was the radio. It not only edangers their lives but everyone on the roads lives.

This is why I never complain about the New York state inspections (where I live). Whenever I see a car with bald tires, it makes me glad to know that at some point in the next year, they'll be forced to get better ones. And our "emissions" inspection consists of making sure the check-engine light isn't on.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker

I like the fact that California has taken steps to clean up the air. If you saw our air quality in the 1980s you would know why. However, CARB is a bloated buerocracy.


The first rule of a bureacuracy is you need that bureaucracy. Look at the March of Dimes, they cured polio but are still around. (and doing good- they rewrote their charter.)

 

[supton]

Becareful of what you wish for: My NH state safety requires all windows and door to be working. Not exactly "safety". But doing the emissions as just a check on OBDII has been a good thing: dirt simple to do, no extra equipment needed (well, they use some fancy computer connection, but that has to be cheaper than any sort of sniffer). I just wish my VW didn't use its CEL as a "the engine is running" light instead.

 

[TC]

Like clockwork over the decades one hears "The new CARB standards are unworkable and unnecessary....Can't be done!...We need a uniform (lowered) standard." (The same things were said about unleaded gas and catalytic converters too.) And then the car makers make it happen, they produce engines that comply with the stricter smog standard, and all of a sudden that thing that was impossible and unworkable works just fine. Then, a few years down the road, that same CARB emissions standard is adopted in the other states as well, where it works just fine. The cycle then repeats again down the road some years later..."These newest CARB standards are unworkable and unnecessary....Can't be done!" And yet, the sky never does seem to fall, although the air quality keeps getting progressively better...

 

[supton]

To be fair they are looking for crazy low emission levels. The cost of doing that is lower mpg, which in turn is more CO2 in the air and higher demand on fuels. Heck, I have to wonder how much emissions occurs while making those new fancy emissions controls--I have to wonder if this isn't turning the problem that PEV's have, where the emissions are moved from the car to the local power plant.

Also, it took years for cars to adapt to the early rounds of emissions equipment. I'll agree that change was necessary; but in some ways CARB was too far ahead. Cars didn't recover until computers came along to finally get the control that was necessary.

 

[2004tdigls]

agreed, if you can put a man on the moon you can build a car that does not pollute excessively

http://www.des.ucdavis.edu/faculty/handy/TTP_seminar/Access_Price_of_Regs.pdf

the automakers have opposed any attempt to increase safety or emission standards by saying they were "unworkable, too costly or reduce performance" which is [censored], simply compare a supercharged ZL1 corvette of today to a 69 vette, the modern car will carve circles around it and the exhaust meets CARB standards

if you look at the history, Detroit in particular, opposed seat belts, Cat converters, the lead gas ban, air bags, fuel economy standards, CCV, head and neck restraints and all other regulations

they said "let the market decide", well the market did, take a look at how many honda accords are on the streets today

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
The whole California Emissions (CARB) is a complete racket. Why ANY state is allowed to over ride Federal standards is just wrong.


As a Constitutional scholar, I can unequivocally say that you are incorrect. The federal government has no constitutional basis for the EPA. (no, the "elastic" general welfare clause and the interstate commerce clause don't apply)

The states have the right to regulate, as they see fit. Federal standards should, in essence, be merely guidelines.


Note: Preamble: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America"

Tenth Amdt: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. (that is specific and direct)

 

[artificialist]

I have seen that on many GM cars from the 1990s to today would have an AIR pump on the California model but none on the 49-state model. Other car makers might do the same thing.

Anyway, if we really wanted to fix the air quality, we'd get the junk cars off the road, and make China do more about their smog.

 

[Carmudgeon]

The problem with CARB is that it is allowed to run amok, with no checks or balances. The members are political appointees who adhere to dogma, and serve to further political agendas.

Nobody, including myself, is against cleaner air, but the way the agency operates is as an activist organization, and shows little, if any regard for other scientific, economic or practical considerations.

Outlaw dark-colored vehicles? They've floated that idea, only to be ridiculed by the public, and admonished by the paint industry.

Enact a mandate based on falsified data, then rescind it, but not before putting an untold number of small businesses out of business? They've done that as well.

Sweep the falsified data, and credentials of the staff involved under the rug? They've done that, too.

 

[Kestas]

Agreed. CARB did a wonderful job of requiring cars to be cleaner. Now they need to back off, downsize, and police what they've accomplished.

Pushing their automotive agenda further has reached diminishing returns at great cost. If they want to further clean air in the region, they need to start looking at things like lawn mowers and barbeques, if the public agrees.

I've heard it as fact, that in one week the average person pollutes more with their lawn mower than with their driving.

 

[TC]

Originally Posted By: Carmudgeon
The problem with CARB is that it is allowed to run amok, with no checks or balances. The members are political appointees who adhere to dogma, and serve to further political agendas.

Nobody, including myself, is against cleaner air, but the way the agency operates is as an activist organization, and shows little, if any regard for other scientific, economic or practical considerations.

Outlaw dark-colored vehicles? They've floated that idea, only to be ridiculed by the public, and admonished by the paint industry.

Enact a mandate based on falsified data, then rescind it, but not before putting an untold number of small businesses out of business? They've done that as well.

Sweep the falsified data, and credentials of the staff involved under the rug? They've done that, too.


Dude….no offense, but you accuse a regulatory agency of ignoring science, disregarding economic considerations, shuttering “untold” numbers of small businesses, falsifying data, faking the credentials of their staff, and “serving only their political agendas.”

And you then gave ONE anecdote to back all this up: The “outlawing” of dark-colored vehicles, a rumor that was apparently spread via Rush Limbaugh’s program.

Snopes.com debunks this and makes it clear that CARB was simply studying the feasibility of making vehicle paint “more reflective” (and therefore cooler), with the intent to investigate whether 20% reflectivity was achievable for all colors, including tougher-to-tweak darker colors. Objective newspaper reports at the time (and this would NOT include Rush Limbaugh) reported that “AT NO TIME was it mentioned, contemplated, or proposed that we would ban or restrict any color.” In fact, CARB concluded that the technology involved “would not be cost effective today,” which is the OPPOSITE of “little regard for economic considerations.” Shorter version: A study to investigate formulating dark paints to be more reflective does NOT equal “outlawing” dark paint, as much as Rush Limbaugh wants it to be.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/traffic/darkcars.asp

Yes, there appears to be a “political agenda” here, but it’s not on CARB’s part.

 

[crazy8]

Originally Posted By: wirelessF
I'd hate it if I have to buy CARB-complaint cats for this truck if the cats need to be replaced.

I know the CARB-complaint versions of the 99-06 Toyota Tundras have three cats vs fed-complaint tundras with two cats.


You will not have to buy anything new to get your car CARB compliant or pass a Calif. smog test as long as everything is OEM.