Can't sell them if you can't make them - BMW

[edyvw]

OK... What is your explanation as to why only Tesla has managed the problems of the last 2 years? Why can't BMW compete? Or just about any other car company, for that matter? Results count.

Yes, Tesla is still in business; their market cap is $940B, making it the 6th most valuable company in the world. Of any kind. Bigger than the next 10 car companies combined, right?

Would you agree that is pretty good management? I appreciate your thoughts.

What is Tesla's contender in ICE market? What do they offer?

 

[edyvw]

Munro i4 1st impression...
BMW EV maintenence?
View attachment 112646

Not exactly a perfet picture comparison, but...
View attachment 112649

Sue is confused she can operate functions and keep an eye on the road.

 

[97prizm]

Management is as important as a company's products. The ability to execute... Apparantly the new kid on the block could teach the old guys a thing or 2 about software and vertical integration. I believe Tesla is dominating lux sales in the US so far this year, and that includes all cars, ICE and EV.

Vertical integration? You mean when Tesla removes computer chips and doesn't think it's necessary to notify their customer base?
I think pulling any steering components or parts from vehicles and not disclosing it is unacceptable. Sure they've made it far but the semi and cybertruck are pushed back again to late 2023. Tesla can't make promises forever. I'd given Musk the boot years ago. Let's not forget his insistence on a yoke lol.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Vertical integration? You mean when Tesla removes computer chips and doesn't think it's necessary to notify their customer base?
I think pulling any steering components or parts from vehicles and not disclosing it is unacceptable. Sure they've made it far but the semi and cybertruck are pushed back again to late 2023. Tesla can't make promises forever. I'd given Musk the boot years ago. Let's not forget his insistence on a yoke lol.

Semiconductor Chip firmware, battery technology, software and of course the charging network are the key integration components that set Tesla apart from other car companies. Software lends itself to so much more...

The SEMI will start deliveries this year, probably to Pepsi.
The butt-ugly Cybertruk is scheduled for next year, as you say. There are estimated to be 1.5M reservations.
Of course, this is Elon time, so take it with a big grain of salt. The Roadster 2 is what I wanna see; it will annililate every performance car in the world. It was announced at the same meeting as the SEMI.

I think you know Tesla is an extremely successful car company; more valuable than the next 10 car companies combined. Market analysts expect Tesla to continue to grow exponentially with the main concern being the loss of Musk. I shoulda bought stock instead of the Model 3 back in Dec 2018. Who knew? TSLA is expected to split 3 for 1 later this month, I believe.

 

[97prizm]

Hey Atari was the largest video game manufacturer in the 70's . Where are they now? They didn't understand the market, didn't brace for a changing or slowing market. They were pieced out and bought up. When Elon musk said Tesla stock is overvalued then that should tell you all you need to know. I can only hope they go absolutely bankrupt.

 

[97prizm]

@OVERKILL you might have to wait regardless, as I believe the Model Y Long Range AWD is sold out for this year. I am seeing Jan - Apr 2023 lead times.
Performance versions are still available for this year.

When Giga Texas and Giga Berlin are running at full capacity, it is quite plausible that the Model Y could become the world's best-selling vehicle by overall volume. With its upward sales growth, the $70K SUV just might close in on the Toyota Corolla, quite a feat.

That's what shocks me. Are there THAT many dim witted Americans in this country? It saddens me that we've become a country of followers that purchase garbage. Tesla should have gone away YEARS ago.

 

[97prizm]

OK... What is your explanation as to why only Tesla has managed the problems of the last 2 years? Why can't BMW compete? Or just about any other car company, for that matter? Results count.

Yes, Tesla is still in business; their market cap is $940B, making it the 6th most valuable company in the world. Of any kind. Bigger than the next 10 car companies combined, right?

Would you agree that is pretty good management? I appreciate your thoughts.

Part of the problem is California's facist "carbon offset credit" program. Tesla was given $4.8 Billion plus dollars. They'd been gone a long time ago if not for that. Shoot Tesla was 6 weeks from bankruptcy. How many other companies were handed hundreds of millions? You support a terrible company. Tesla has hosed customers over and over. It's like they can't help themselves.

 

[Koainn]

Even Capt. Kirk makes fun of him lol

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...villain-Elon-Musk-scathing-Daily-segment.html

 

[UncleDave]

Part of the problem is California's facist "carbon offset credit" program. Tesla was given $4.8 Billion plus dollars. They'd been gone a long time ago if not for that. Shoot Tesla was 6 weeks from bankruptcy. How many other companies were handed hundreds of millions? You support a terrible company. Tesla has hosed customers over and over. It's like they can't help themselves.

The pots calling the kettle black. Short and selective memory.

Anybody could have gotten the 4.8B -that credit was given to anyone foreign makers or not.

Tesla didnt go BK and steal the investors money.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Part of the problem is California's facist "carbon offset credit" program. Tesla was given $4.8 Billion plus dollars. They'd been gone a long time ago if not for that. Shoot Tesla was 6 weeks from bankruptcy. How many other companies were handed hundreds of millions? You support a terrible company. Tesla has hosed customers over and over. It's like they can't help themselves.

No, that's not true. Tesla was given nothing.
In 2010 Tesla Motors has received approval for about $465 million in low-interest loans from the US Department of Energy to accelerate the production of affordable, fuel-efficient electric vehicles. Tesla repaid the loan in full, in 2013, 9 years early.

Perhaps you are thinking about General Motors?
In total, GM received $52 billion from the U.S. government, but only $6.7 billion of this amount was considered a loan. They repaid the loan in 2019. The rest is on the taxpayers, you and I.

 

[JeffKeryk]

That's what shocks me. Are there THAT many dim witted Americans in this country? It saddens me that we've become a country of followers that purchase garbage. Tesla should have gone away YEARS ago.

Perhaps other car companies have dim witted customers as well? All the other car companies are chasing and mimicing Tesla and their electric vehicles, right?

 

[97prizm]

No, that's not true. Tesla was given nothing.
In 2010 Tesla Motors has received approval for about $465 million in low-interest loans from the US Department of Energy to accelerate the production of affordable, fuel-efficient electric vehicles. Tesla repaid the loan in full, in 2013, 9 years early.

Perhaps you are thinking about General Motors?
In total, GM received $52 billion from the U.S. government, but only $6.7 billion of this amount was considered a loan. They repaid the loan in 2019. The rest is on the taxpayers, you and I.

Tesla Earned $428 Million With Carbon Credits In Q2 2020: Why That's Bad​

If it wasn’t for these “regulatory credits”, Tesla would not have “a positive free cash flow.”​

 

[JeffKeryk]

Tesla Earned $428 Million With Carbon Credits In Q2 2020: Why That's Bad​

If it wasn’t for these “regulatory credits”, Tesla would not have “a positive free cash flow.”​

Are you saying Tesla is the only company that is eligible for carbon credits? Carbon credits started in 1997, FYI.

Look, if oyu don't like Tesla, Musk, EVs or whatever, that's fine. Personally, I like lots of cars. I wouldn't blow a head gasket over a car...
Apologies if I seem to be pushing anyone's buttons. It's just a conversation. Maybe you will like this car, a '68 427 Corvette mostly original. I have waaaaaay to much $$ into this one. I gave it to my BIL a few years back to finish the interior and new soft top.

 

[97prizm]

Are you saying Tesla is the only company that is eligible for carbon credits? Carbon credits started in 1997, FYI.

Look, if oyu don't like Tesla, Musk, EVs or whatever, that's fine. Personally, I like lots of cars. I wouldn't blow a head gasket over a car...
Apologies if I seem to be pushing anyone's buttons. It's just a conversation. Maybe you will like this car, a '68 427 Corvette mostly original. I have waaaaaay to much $$ into this one. I gave it to my BIL a few years back to finish the interior and new soft top.
View attachment 112950

Now that's a ride Jeff. I've been to the Corvette plant 3 times. Yes we all like different things. My biggest hangup with Tesla is Elon musk not you. My biggest dislike is that Elon Makes outlandish promises, says really stupid things and there seems to be no consequences for his actions, and people stick ip for him. If most people acted like him they'd be in jail or out of business. I don't like supporting megalomaniacs. Yes I've heard that Henry Ford was this way as was Jeffrey Katzenberg who turned Disney around after 3 failed movies.

 

[97prizm]

I blow a head gasket as companies are caving to outlandish government regulations. Shoot if people want an electric vehicle by all means, purchase one, but the government shouldn't go nuts and make ice vehicles illegal. Stellantis had been in the works to produce a.900hp E85 Hellcat. Not now, @lol E muscle. They could have produced an awesome machine but are now "focused on electric vehicles ".

 

[Spyderman24_7]

I blow a head gasket as companies are caving to outlandish government regulations. Shoot if people want an electric vehicle by all means, purchase one, but the government shouldn't go nuts and make ice vehicles illegal. Stellantis had been in the works to produce a.900hp E85 Hellcat. Not now, @lol E muscle. They could have produced an awesome machine but are now "focused on electric vehicles ".

I wouldn't go as far to say ICE will be illegal as there's tens of millions of ICE cars in daily use and surely will continue to do so. Of course the push seems to be more toward manufacturers to offer electric as in new, but I am confident ICE will be around quite a long time. I for one have no intention of bothering with new tech when what I have works quite well as is.

Manufacturers can keep trying to push the EV market, but it will likely take years for the infrastructure to come close to catching up. I read of constant complaints over public charging not being in working order, being charged double for the service used, copper being stolen, etc. Still hilarious that battery power has been around a very long time and still not practical for many daily uses.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I blow a head gasket as companies are caving to outlandish government regulations. Shoot if people want an electric vehicle by all means, purchase one, but the government shouldn't go nuts and make ice vehicles illegal. Stellantis had been in the works to produce a.900hp E85 Hellcat. Not now, @lol E muscle. They could have produced an awesome machine but are now "focused on electric vehicles ".

ICE-only configuration for certain modes of transportation will eventually be phased out but existing fleets won't be made illegal.

 

[Ken42]

As I'm sure everyone recalls, I test drove both the i4 M50 and iX M50 at BMW Durham and absolutely loved the i4 M50; by far my favourite EV, though my wife preferred the iX. At the time, you could order one, but the ETA was like 6-8 months.

BMW has a serious contender on their hands here with both of these vehicles (though the iX is UGLY). The performance is phenomenal, as is the ride quality and interior appointments as well as fit and finish.

But that doesn't mean a thing if you can't deliver them.

Since then, I've been periodically checking the Auto Trader to see if anyone has any stock. Nope. Clearly, the supply shortage has had a pretty big impact on the ability to produce these vehicles, which is unfortunate, because I think they would sell extremely well if BMW could have them on dealer lots.

I've seen the sales figures posted recently, and, well, you can't sell what you can't produce and deliver. Telsa is able to deliver cars while it doesn't seem that BMW is able to, at least not their EV's.

Say Hi to Allen

 

[OVERKILL]

Say Hi to Allen

He was the guy that showed me the iX, he does some really good youtube videos!

Link to his channel for those that are lost by this conversation, lol:
https://www.youtube.com/c/AllenBMWDurham