Can someone explain oil properties?

[blacklamb]

not sure if this is explained else where on the sight but can someone many the oil properties "simple" for me basically by explaining the basic of the term and the higher the better or the lower the better type of thing.

I've been looking at AMSOIL, Schaeffers, and Rottella for my 05 Ram 2500 from stuff I've read I've nixed AMSOIL at least for my diesel (it works great in my mini) and have boiled down to Schaeffers or Rottella. I've been trying to decipher all the technical properties of both oils and am lost.

Here is a sample of what I'm looking at(page four):

http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/TD Sheets/9000.pdf

I don't want to start this one is better and such as those battles go no where, I know their both great oils I would just like to know what to look for so I can make a choice for myself.

Thanks

 

[Donald]

Are you talking Rotella T (conventional oil) or Rotella TC synthetic oil.

Look at my post under diesel oils as I was considering what to run for my 99 Dodge Ram diesel.

I am not sure if reviewing all the spec is that important or tells a lot. For example you want the TBN to be above 1, maybe 1.5 on the day you change your oil. Its 10 in the Schaefers. But its not depleted in a linear fashion. The thing to know is how many miles before its 1.5? How about viscosity, I am sure their viscosity is within grade out of the bottle. But when/if ever will is shear and thin out? How many miles before its out of grade.

Keep in mind if you use Rotella T your engine will outlast your frame. If you use any decent synthetic your engine will outlast your frame.

 

[blacklamb]

^ I plan on pure synthetic

 

[2oldtommy]

Welcome to BITOG !! There is a wealth of knowledge available for your perusal if you will check out the index of papers that have been written by members. After several years, you may consider yourself capable Of offering your opinion on matters pertaining to lube oils and their components. There are no firm answers as to which oil is 'best'. These are all subjective and you will find as many opinions as there are members here. Good reading for the next few months! FWIW--Oldtommy

 

[Ken2]

CCS viscosity...lower is better
HTHS vis....higher is better
mini-rotary...lower is better
viscosity index...higher is better
pour point...lower is better
total base number....higher after usage is better, new level not a big deal
volatility...lower is better

Oil specs are only a guide, not a decision point. The specs that really matter are after the oil is used to show how well the oil protected the engine.

Rotella is perfectly OK, nothing special, nothing wrong with it. Schaeffer makes far superior products that will live longer with lower engine wear, and lower total cost if you run the oil as long as it is good.

 

[blacklamb]

@ 2oldtommy, Thanks for the welcome I think i was on the site for two to three hours just reading it made my brain hurt.

@ Ken2, talked to my local diesel shop mech, and he told me he could talk to me for hours why he used Schaeffer's, I think I'll save his and my time and mine and run it in my truck. I have to trust this guy as he could tell me my valves needed adjusting by listing to it but only on the back side of the motor, I was impressed. I plan on owning the truck until its a pile of rust and want the motor any transmission to last forever so I guess I'll run it.

Thanks for the other info I now can use it as a "base" to start my future decisions and I've always wondered.

 

[ottomatic]

I don't use or endorse their product but they do have pretty good info which is an easy read

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief10 - Oil Base Stocks.pdf

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief13 - Oil Viscosity.pdf

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief3 - Lubrication Terminology.pdf

 

[dnewton3]

Welcome to the site, blacklamb.

In order to make a solid decision about what oil is appropriate for your situtaion, you need to first analyze and define all the circumstances around the use of your lube.

The rest can be gleaned from reading many of the posts here. There are some great links to helpful articles, but beware, because there are also links to some (now infamous) articles, such as the CJ-4 article from TDR several years ago; I hold that particular article in contempt for it's very narrow-minded view of how lubes should be judged.

It seems you're dead set on using "pure synthetics". I would caution you to first do a lot more research before you make up your mind, or you may end up grossly wasting resources and money. Synthetic lubes are tools to greatly extend the OCI. If you're not into that, you're just going to be wasting money. And I would caution you to be VERY studious before making any decision.

RESULTS are what matter far more than inputs.

Read my signature line; that tells you all you need to know.

 

[Samilcar]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Start here, then read the other articles on the main page.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
CCS viscosity...lower is better
HTHS vis....higher is better
mini-rotary...lower is better
viscosity index...higher is better
pour point...lower is better
total base number....higher after usage is better, new level not a big deal
volatility...lower is better

Oil specs are only a guide, not a decision point. The specs that really matter are after the oil is used to show how well the oil protected the engine.



Great summation!

 

[salesrep]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: Ken2
CCS viscosity...lower is better
HTHS vis....higher is better
mini-rotary...lower is better
viscosity index...higher is better
pour point...lower is better
total base number....higher after usage is better, new level not a big deal
volatility...lower is better

Oil specs are only a guide, not a decision point. The specs that really matter are after the oil is used to show how well the oil protected the engine.



Great summation!

+1

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
CCS viscosity...lower is better
HTHS vis....higher is better
mini-rotary...lower is better
viscosity index...higher is better
pour point...lower is better
total base number....higher after usage is better, new level not a big deal
volatility...lower is better



Let's put definitions on those parameters:

CCS - Cold Cranking Simulator - A measure of how easy the engine is to crank when the oil is at sub-zero temperature. Lower CCS viscosity means less stress on your starting system during a cold start.

MRV - Miniature Rotary Viscometer - also known as Cold Pumpability. A measure of how easy the oil will flow into the pump after the engine has started. CCS and MRV are the parameters used to define the "W" rating of an oil.

HTHS - high temperature, high-shear viscosity - A measure of an oil's ability to maintain adequate film thickness at high temperature conditions. The viscosity measurement is taken at 150C at a shear rate of 1,000,000 reciprocal seconds. Heavy duty diesel engines require a minimum of 3.7 centipoise in the HTHS measurement. HTHS and the kinematic viscosity at 100C are what determines an oil's high temperature rating. (30, 40, etc)

VI - viscosity index - A measure of how constant the kinematic viscosity is over the range of 40 to 100C. The higher the VI, the LESS the viscosity varies.

TBN - Total Base Number - The measure of an oil's ability to neutralize acids that are produced as by-products of combustion. The higher the TBN, the longer that an oil can neutralize acids and prevent corrosion of internal engine components. Depending on the type of detergents used in the additive package, oils can have differing amounts of TBN and still protect for the same amount of time.

NOACK - volatility - A measure of an oil's volatility when heated to a standard test temperature. Measured in % of oil mass lost. Generally lower NOACK numbers indicate lower oil consumption in the engine.

 

[A_Harman]

blacklamb,

I am going through a similar process on my 2001 Cummins Dodge. I switched to Rotella T6 about a year ago and have been doing oil analyses to gauge when to change the oil. Here is a link to my second analysis:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2690009#Post2690009

The oil is at 18,000 miles and still has a substantial amount of life left, and the wear metals are increasing at an acceptable rate. My truck consumes oil at a fairly high rate, so it gets fresh oil regularly. So far, I like RT6 a lot, and would only consider switching to another if I thought I could decrease consumption.

When I went out to buy oil last year, my first choice was Schaeffer's 9000. I went to three places locally that were on Schaeffer's distributor list, and none of them had it in stock. I gave up and went to my local Meijer and bought RT6 for $21 a gallon. A gallon of Schaeffer's costs ~$30, so even if it reduces oil consumption and extends change intervals by 40%, it would still cost the same to use.

Another oil I'm considering is Conoco-Phillips Triton ECT, but I've never seen it on the shelf.

 

[blacklamb]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Welcome to the site, blacklamb.

In order to make a solid decision about what oil is appropriate for your situtaion, you need to first analyze and define all the circumstances around the use of your lube.

The rest can be gleaned from reading many of the posts here. There are some great links to helpful articles, but beware, because there are also links to some (now infamous) articles, such as the CJ-4 article from TDR several years ago; I hold that particular article in contempt for it's very narrow-minded view of how lubes should be judged.

It seems you're dead set on using "pure synthetics". I would caution you to first do a lot more research before you make up your mind, or you may end up grossly wasting resources and money. Synthetic lubes are tools to greatly extend the OCI. If you're not into that, you're just going to be wasting money. And I would caution you to be VERY studious before making any decision.

RESULTS are what matter far more than inputs.

Read my signature line; that tells you all you need to know.



I already run pure synthetics in my daily driver and I take advantage of the extended drain interval. I use AMSOIL in my Mini, which calls for syntactic already and the interval change per mini is already 15500 which I do +/- 200miles. I per AMSOIL I I could take it up to 25k with highway driving but under “severe service” it says 15k I drive 16 miles one way to work and I feel that constitutes my 15k oil changes. So far in my mini’s life I’ve had one problem and that was my fuel rail but that was a quick easy fix. I had something done to my Mini and the Tech told me that my engine was one of the cleanest if not the cleanest he’d ever seen, inside and out, after he said that I became a firm believer in synthetics at least in gas engines.
So that being said, I plan to do the exact something for my truck (but with Schaeffers) with the exception being of the truck’s oil capacity being in gallons and not quarts I would take advantage of getting it tested and maybe a oil filter swap at 10-15k. I’m still reading though and debating, as you said a lot of money to put into something just to drain it a few thousand miles down the road.
I was a firm believer in 3k oil changes from the age of 16 to about 21 when I talked to one of my coworkers, Chris. Chris’s dad worked for oil company X and basically told him the 3000 mile rule is a bunch of [censored] for Conventional oil and you could go somewhere around 7k or something like that it was a while back, so at that point I kept with the conventional and changed every 5-7k as my car ran hot! (93 RX-7 twin-turbo w/mods). My OIC’s only grew as I educated myself with synthetics.
I would also like to take the time to thank everyone pitching in over the past few days, there is so much to learn and I enjoy learning it. So keep the info come and I’ll keep reading!