Can seal conditioners damage an engine?

[4wd]

Don't want an argument but HFCS is banned around the world. I used it as an example, just like they still sold lead paint at one time knowing the danger..

Can we stay on subject now.

Likely a wet seal and a good High Mileage oil is not a bad idea …

 

[SC Maintenance]

It's a 2.8 pontiac , it's very slow, enough to wet the area but not really drip on the ground.

I would try a conventional first. You might get enough swell to slow things down a bit.

 

[kschachn]

Why not, the FDA allows HFCS to damage millions of people.

When I say damage I mean can it make a leak worse in the long run, how many times can you swell a seal or keep it swelled. Something along those lines is what Im getting at.

Right. Exactly the same I’m sure.

 

[kschachn]

Can we stay on subject now.

“We” meaning you. Bringing in a completely irrelevant analogy and now we are the problem?

If the oil has an API license then it has a license same as any other oil. The blender or formulator isn’t lying about this one product and certifying the rest. Get a grip. There are seal swelling limits and other requirements that all oils have to meet for the same license.

 

[billt460]

I much prefer to use a high mileage synthetic over any conventional conventional oil. Even in my small 4 stroke engines, I go with Mobil 1 15w50. There really isn't much conventional oil to choose from any longer. At least in the places that I shop.

 

[SC Maintenance]

“We” meaning you. Bringing in a completely irrelevant analogy and now we are the problem?

If the oil has an API license then it has a license same as any other oil. The blender or formulator isn’t lying about this one product and certifying the rest. Get a grip. There are seal swelling limits and other requirements that all oils have to meet for the same license.

API Elastomer test and its associated API / SAE counterparts is pretty uncompelling relative to shaft seals, IMHO. Putting a few materials in hot oil and testing with a durometer is a placebo test at best.

Not getting in to the other debate other than to say the FDA used to say eggs were bad, but now there good, and I don't trust much of anything the FDA has to say.

 

[kschachn]

API Elastomer test and its associated API / SAE counterparts is pretty uncompelling relative to shaft seals, IMHO. Putting a few materials in hot oil and testing with a durometer is a placebo test at best.

Nevertheless, any oil with the same license meets the same requirements. If it performs well in one application or less well in another isn’t the point. The OP asked if the High Mileage oil would cause harm, and it won’t, any more or any less than any other licensed oil.

 

[hunter2929]

“We” meaning you. Bringing in a completely irrelevant analogy and now we are the problem?

If the oil has an API license then it has a license same as any other oil. The blender or formulator isn’t lying about this one product and certifying the rest. Get a grip. There are seal swelling limits and other requirements that all oils have to meet for the same license.

I don't recall saying anyone was a problem. And I'm supposed to get a grip . Lol

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Was thinking of giving a high mileage oil a try.

Opinions please, thanks

This stuff has worked for a lot of people. The correct way to fix it is replacing the leaky seals, this stuff could buy you some time.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPL8WY...ACCLRU&sprefix=liqui+moly+motor+oil+save&th=1

 

[hunter2929]

Thank you..yes looking to buy a little time. I only drive this about 350 miles a season.

 

[Legs4Arms]

My 1991 F-150 developed a rear main oil leak about 20+ years ago. It's not a heavy leak, so I bought a couple of those big drip pans, and just lived with it. A few years back, (maybe a bit longer than that), I switched from regular Mobil 1 10w40, to High Mileage Mobil 1 of the same weight.

I can say it has greatly reduced the leak. It has not eliminated it. But it most definitely leaks far less than it did before. So I'll continue to use the product. Since then I have read that it's not a bad idea to use these type of oils if you have a newer vehicle that gets low mileage due to infrequent use.

This i'm not sure about, so I'm hesitant to try it in my newer vehicles that get driven very little. Besides, neither one of them leak a drop. But I would like to keep the seals properly conditioned so they don't start leaking.

Exactly this. The 3.6L Pentastar in the 2014 Wrangler Sport only has 30,000kms on it. Last change I filled it with Mobil 1 5W-30 High Mileage just to give them seals that don't see a lot of action a little extra love.
Figure it can't hurt even if the difference is negligible

 

[SC Maintenance]

Nevertheless, any oil with the same license meets the same requirements. If it performs well in one application or less well in another isn’t the point. The OP asked if the High Mileage oil would cause harm, and it won’t, any more or any less than any other licensed oil.

Not really. Just because there elementary material test didn't harden or overly expand the material itself doesn't give you any data regarding its affect on a complex shaft seal. Hubris.

 

[SilentType]

If I may offer an apples to oranges anecdote...our Mazda had a leaky axle shaft seal running Castrol Import ATF. I swapped it out for Maxlife ATF through the cooler line and the leak stopped cold with nothing else being added. It's probably impossible to say if Valvoline uses the same conditioners in their engine oils but it wouldn't hurt to give Maxlife syn blend a shot.

All of this is to say don't fear oils that contain seal conditioner in any amount. Got nothing to lose trying IMHO.

This all happened 5+ years ago the car is still driven daily and is now running Valvoline Import ATF with no leakage anywhere.

 

[hunter2929]

Thanks, I appreciate all of the advice you guys are posting.

 

[kschachn]

Not really. Just because there elementary material test didn't harden or overly expand the material itself doesn't give you any data regarding its affect on a complex shaft seal. Hubris.

Well please explain to the OP then how an API licensed oil may still be harmful in his engine, despite my hubris. Perhaps you can tell him what to look for so that the High Mileage oil isn't harmful to the complex shaft seals he has.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Well please explain to the OP then how an API licensed oil may still be harmful in his engine, despite my hubris. Perhaps you can tell him what to look for so that the High Mileage oil isn't harmful to the complex shaft seals he has.

Well you would have to find the specs on the OP's seal and someone knowledgeable about seal design to know the specif affect of swelling or hardening certain materials to that specific seal. Which was my point - a simple durometer test in the API is pretty much a placebo because your not dealing with simple material properties, your dealing with a complex seal. I never claimed to be a seal expert, but I know enough to say that much.

Theory meets reality.

I already made my suggestion.

If your a composite seal expert explain to me how I am wrong?

 

[kschachn]

Well you would have to find the specs on the OP's seal and someone knowledgeable about seal design to know the specif affect of swelling or hardening certain materials to that specific seal. Which was my point - a simple durometer test in the API is pretty much a placebo because your not dealing with simple material properties, your dealing with a complex seal. I never claimed to be a seal expert, but I know enough to say that much.

Theory meets reality.

I already made my suggestion.

If your a composite seal expert explain to me how I am wrong?

View attachment 331554

Nah I just wanted you to give an answer to the OP that made sense without going on about how the API is useless, and explain to the OP how it applied to the seals in his engine. The answer I gave is exactly correct that if one oil has an API license then another with the same license will not cause harm. After all, that is the criteria here.

You seem more interested in the supposed esoteric. Pictures of seals not withstanding, complex or otherwise.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Nah I just wanted you to give an answer to the OP that made sense without going on about how the API is useless, and explain to the OP how it applied to the seals in his engine. The answer I gave is exactly correct that if one oil has an API license then another with the same license will not cause harm. After all, that is the criteria here.

You seem more interested in the supposed esoteric. Pictures of seals not withstanding, complex or otherwise.

Given that all the API test measures is the material itself with a durometer your wrong.

May be applicable to something like a valve cover gasket - because that is a simple material seal.

A shaft seal is a mechanical part. It has to seal but it also has to continually flex to accommodate the shaft runout which all shafts have. Most don't appreciate this fact.

The fact you don't understand this does not surprise me.

 

[kschachn]

I'm not familiar with the details of ASTM D7216, but from what I can find online it is not just a durometer test. It measures changes in volume as well as tensile properties. This is the test that is incorporated into an API license.

Since you have superior understanding in this area perhaps you could access the ASTM procedure and give us better details. I no longer have access to all of them since moving out of a materials science job.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'm not familiar with the details of ASTM D7216, but from what I can find online it is not just a durometer test. It measures changes in volume as well as tensile properties. This is the test that is incorporated into an API license.

Since you have superior understanding in this area perhaps you could access the ASTM procedure and give us better details. I no longer have access to all of them since moving out of a materials science job.

API, ASTM, SAE - there all elastomer tests.

Shaft seals integrate a spring. You would need to understand the relationship of this spring pressure relative to the elastomer and the anticipated maximum shaft runout of that particular seal.

ie its impossible to determine as a general statement for shaft seals, since each is different and 1984 shaft seals were not designed with anything in mind other than conventional oil. It may, Or it may not.