California gas has been low sulphur since 2006

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Without reading the links have you discovered the actual ppm in California?

As if they are the same as Europe (the EU part at least) then it is possible that similar OCI as Europe could be possible.
 
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Hello:

Many people on this forum continue to make blanket claims that US gasoline has a high sulphur content. That may be true for the other 49 states, but California gasoline has had low sulphur gasoline since early 2006.

So that's 1 state out of 49. For the majority of general public, you might as well say that US gasoline is still not ultra low sulfur.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Without reading the links have you discovered the actual ppm in California?

Why not click on those links? It's at 15 ppm. I think Europe is at 10 ppm, so it's pretty close, IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Hello:

Many people on this forum continue to make blanket claims that US gasoline has a high sulphur content. That may be true for the other 49 states, but California gasoline has had low sulphur gasoline since early 2006.

So that's 1 state out of 49. For the majority of general public, you might as well say that US gasoline is still not ultra low sulfur.


One out of 49, but it's also 12% of the country's population. The net result is certainly bigger than "1 out of 49" suggests. In a couple of years it'll be moot though as national standards go to to 10ppm.
 
So what's the ppm in the other 49 states? If it's high sulphur, it's a bit surprising that you can buy SULEV/PZEV cars with 150,000 mile catalysts warranties in New England. The sulphur would poison the catalytic converters.

California did thinks a bit backwards. They enacted new stringent in Tier II emissions in 2004, but didn't make the low sulphur fuel until 2006. Some cars had to be banned from the state during those two years because they couldn't meet the minimum standard.
 
Originally Posted By: RamFan
What advantage does low sulfur bring?


CO, HC & NOx are all reduced, and there's less corrosion on valve guides, cylinder walls and the entire exhaust system. The only real downside in gasoline is cost to refine it. Gasoline has been "low sulfur" in the US since 2006, with an average of 30ppm and a cap of 80ppm for most refineries (I think some small refineries got exemptions for a slightly higher levels, but that's going off of my failing memory). So, the fuel here in the US is not high in sulfur content, and hasn't been since the mid-2000's.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: RamFan
What advantage does low sulfur bring?


CO, HC & NOx are all reduced, and there's less corrosion on valve guides, cylinder walls and the entire exhaust system. The only real downside in gasoline is cost to refine it. Gasoline has been "low sulfur" in the US since 2006, with an average of 30ppm and a cap of 80ppm for most refineries (I think some small refineries got exemptions for a slightly higher levels, but that's going off of my failing memory). So, the fuel here in the US is not high in sulfur content, and hasn't been since the mid-2000's.


So lower Sulphur reduces emissions and engine wear. Awesome, thanks!
 
And it also leads to less TBN depletion.

It never occurred to me till somebody posted it on another thread that the extra sulphur would increase the acidity that the TBN has to deal with.

So vehicles in California could consider working their way to European extended drains, gradually with UOA of course.

But interesting as surely those living near to California could fuel up at fuel stations with the lower sulphur fuel, so this could be relevant for others than just Californians.
 
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Those living just outside CA would not go into CA to pay higher prices and taxes!
 
Isn't low sulphur diesel required to be for sale in all 50 states to run all road driven and older diesel cars and trucks? This must be the case since ALL diesel cars now require this fuel and you have to be able to fill up anywhere in the US that road taxed diesel is sold.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: RamFan
What advantage does low sulfur bring?
CO, HC & NOx are all reduced, and there's less corrosion on valve guides, cylinder walls and the entire exhaust system.
It's funny how I can hear completely different things. On this forum I hear low-sulfur reduces wear, while over on VWvortex I hear the exact opposite (sulfur == less lubrication for metal & more wear, especially on fuel pumps). Amsoil's catalog says the same thing about more wear caused by reduced sulfur.

So who do I believe? (shrug) I add a drop of lubricity additive just to be safe.

As for CO, HC, NOx: Those items have little connection to the amount of sulfur in the fuel. My car was rated LEV back in 2001 which means 2.0 gram/mile of CO, HC and NOx pollutants. Filling the car with California gas does not lower that pollution level; they still rated it as a LEV. It reduced the SOx output but nothing else.

I would need to upgrade to a better catalyst to reduce the other pollutants.
 
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up north here the local E10 gas has been "secretly" shifted to low-sulphur between 2K and 2004, and now all the regional gasoline are @ 120ppm typical, and the lowest around 60ppm.

The most immediate benefits can be seen by motorist is the longevity of their tailpipes, mufflers, etc. Used to be during the 90s, I have to go through one factory OE muffler every 6 yrs (aftermarket typically lasts between 1.5 to 3 yrs, thus the flourishing of speedy muffler shops all over the place for aftermarket stuff). Now, my dad's car still has it's original muffler on it (over 148k now), and my wifey's 04 camry still on original exhaust piping and muffler and clocked >156k so far....

cats combine sulphur and whatever comes downstream in terms of H2O into sulphuric acid ...although minute in comparison to the amount of HC and CO or CO2 expelled, it's still potent enough to eat away the steel tailpipes and mufflers.

reduction in sulphur does bring benefits to emissions and longevity of emission control systems of an automobile....

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: rrrrrroger
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: RamFan
What advantage does low sulfur bring?
CO, HC & NOx are all reduced, and there's less corrosion on valve guides, cylinder walls and the entire exhaust system.
It's funny how I can hear completely different things. On this forum I hear low-sulfur reduces wear, while over on VWvortex I hear the exact opposite (sulfur == less lubrication for metal & more wear, especially on fuel pumps). Amsoil's catalog says the same thing about more wear caused by reduced sulfur.

So who do I believe? (shrug) I add a drop of lubricity additive just to be safe.

As for CO, HC, NOx: Those items have little connection to the amount of sulfur in the fuel. My car was rated LEV back in 2001 which means 2.0 gram/mile of CO, HC and NOx pollutants. Filling the car with California gas does not lower that pollution level; they still rated it as a LEV. It reduced the SOx output but nothing else.

I would need to upgrade to a better catalyst to reduce the other pollutants.





Different things. Benzothiophenes and dibenzothiophenes which are too heavy for gasoline cuts, often complex with nickel in alloys in diesel pumps and serve as a lubricant. Gasoline pumps AFAIK have never had lubricity issues, and the compounds are far different anyway.

Sulfur can create irreversible poisoning on precious catalysts, and effect the active surface, which reduces its activity and thus the output. CA emissions may be cleaner, or they may just have a longer warranty... either will be effected by S.

Will sulfur natively change the other emissions from a vehicle? Well, refineries typically remove sulfur by hydrodesulfurization, just like hydroprocessing oils. High pressure hydrogen is injected to help convert sulfur to H2S and other compounds. Thing is, it is a very unselective and inefficient process, and hydrogen, either steam reformed from natural gas or from cat cracker gas, is expensive to make. The processes open up all the cyclic and aromatic compounds first (a huge waste) because its not selective to sulfur.

But in the end it changes the hydrocarbons somewhat, and thus they may compust somewhat differently.

S compounds also tend to be soot precursors, so the kinetics of their combustion, and thus effects are different...
 
Originally Posted By: rrrrrroger
It's funny how I can hear completely different things. On this forum I hear low-sulfur reduces wear, while over on VWvortex I hear the exact opposite (sulfur == less lubrication for metal & more wear, especially on fuel pumps). Amsoil's catalog says the same thing about more wear caused by reduced sulfur.

Europe has had ULS gasoline for years. I don't hear any increased engine wear problems or an onslaught of failed fuel pump problems coming from there.
 
The benefit of low sulfur fuel is the ability to operate lean stratified charge, which makes better use of DI and the like.

I suspect that LSC, because it likely raises NOx, demands lower sulfur for the longevity of the reduction catalyst.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The benefit of low sulfur fuel is the ability to operate lean stratified charge, which makes better use of DI and the like.
No modern car does that because it would emit too much NOx and fail California's Tier II emissions.
 
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