"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave..."
California bans sale of obsolete motor oil
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"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave..."Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Apparently CA has nothing better to do. Good to hear they are working on major issues like this. LOL What a joke.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Apparently CA has nothing better to do. Good to hear they are working on major issues like this. LOL What a joke.
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I hope they don't ban old cars, too. I consider my Honda just about broken in and ready to go.
"Obsolete" oil should just be labeled for its intended purpose. That I can see as useful because most people don't know anything about oil and retailers take advantage of that.
Just a suggestion for the PQIA, with respect to Tom Glenn's wording about there still being a use for SA and SB oils. Really, there is not, and that confusion could be cleared up very quickly, with people working together even a little. Compressor manufacturers should call for ISO grades, and nothing else. All the big players manufacture compressor oils with ISO grades. Basically, compressor manufacturers should get in board with proper wording in their lubricant specifications, and label their own branded lubricants on the shelf rigorously, too.
As for non-detergent motor oil, Castrol still makes a non-detergent 30, labeled very clearly as such. So, for those who need a non-detergent motor oil, such things still do exist.
I'm not sure how far to read into it. I think the best take away is the more of this information that is out there the more aware the unsuspecting person is before making a purchase that can and will damage their engine. There's some seriously bad stuff out there. I've looked at oils that will ruin an engine in less than 3,000 miles.
Banning a junk product and making it clear to retailers not to stock a product is a good thing. Some of the oils are packaged to look like new quality oil that meets specification. The people on this forum are more passionate about oil and/or seeking valuable information. Not everyone thinks about oil viscosity and the API and the donut. They just know they need to put oil in their engine.
This sounds like an attempt to get gas stations and other non-auto-store places that sell oil in individual quarts to sell genuine motor oil instead of some of the snake oil that some stores knowingly sell.
Probably the independent producers of specialty products like Redline and Brad Penn will carve out a niche for racing/off-road use, have to change labeling a little, and be done with it.
I fail to see what the big deal is. Except if one is a crooked gas station owner who can mark up a bottle of sludge by 200% and sell it to unsuspecting folks who need a quart of oil.
Personally I don't object to oil companies selling whatever products they want to, so long as they are clearly and honestly labeled as to what applications they are suitable for. By clearly I mean in large print on the front label.
I DO object to a company selling a product labeled "Motor Oil" in large print on the front label when it is not suitable for 99% of the "motors" on the road, and then placing it on shelves alongside bona fide modern automotive motor oils. This fools innocent consumers who don't understand motor oils, who are probably over 90% of the population.
I believe most of the oil companies doing this, as well as many of the retailers, know exactly what they are doing. They count on consumers not reading back labels, or understanding the API and ILSAC symbols and acronyms. It appears they also target low income neighborhoods where people are more likely to be attracted to lower prices. That's pretty low!
If you want to sell an SA oil for compressors, fine, label it "Compressor Oil" on the front label. If you want to sell another obsolete oil, fine, label it "Vintage Motor Oil" and state on the front label "Do not use in engines built after 19XX." That's simple basic honesty, so why do you think they don't do this? Could it be that the would sell a lot less oil? To bury such limitations on the back label is just plain intentional trickery. Fraud laws are justified to prevent corporate abuse, protect average consumers, and create a level competitive playing field. How well such laws are written is another topic.
Tom NJ
NOTE: I am an unpaid advisor to PQIA and the opinions I express in my posts on BITOG are my own and do not necessarily reflect the position of PQIA.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Just a suggestion for the PQIA, with respect to Tom Glenn's wording about there still being a use for SA and SB oils. Really, there is not, and that confusion could be cleared up very quickly, with people working together even a little. Compressor manufacturers should call for ISO grades, and nothing else. All the big players manufacture compressor oils with ISO grades. Basically, compressor manufacturers should get in board with proper wording in their lubricant specifications, and label their own branded lubricants on the shelf rigorously, too.
As for non-detergent motor oil, Castrol still makes a non-detergent 30, labeled very clearly as such. So, for those who need a non-detergent motor oil, such things still do exist.
Exactly.
Most of the items labelled as "specialty" items actually enjoy a huge markup.
Example: if you go to your home depot or whatever, You have to pay like $20/gallon for "true" pure gasoline in a can that doesn't have additives or ethanol.
So those products aren't going away, if the bottomfeeders really are producing your wanted sa/sb or nondetergent oils they should horn in on the specialty market for chainsaw lubes or whatever; and enjoying massive profits selling or undercutting the $10 a PINT instead of complaining they're getting locked out of the $1/quart engine oil shelf where the business model depends on less smart buyer's getting confused and getting tricked.
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Many electric motors which may come in contact with water stipulate non-detergent oil, heating systems being one example. I've used Mobil 1 in my boiler pump motors for decades, however, without harm.
Is it merely a way (broad legislation, no doubt) to get garbage oils off the market?
Here's what I think in the realm of "Nanny States" and "Commie takeovers".
1) They know how much oil is sold retail vs. service centers.
2) They know how much oil is recycled via service centers and recycling centers
3) They know the difference is dumped oil which goes into our drinking water
4) They want that stopped
5) I don't really mind stopping lazy, destructive fools from poisoning my water
6) So rather than communicate to people (because it doesn't work and bad people are bad people) there's a grand scheme to choke off oil sales sometime down the road-however long it takes
7) This is why we're hearing stories about "oil change cartridges" and other forms of handling constrictions.
8) Ridding the market of old, bad oil (remember all the bad oil in Ohio?) IS something good to do and serves as a practice step
9) If I was KING I'd make everyone return their old oil to the point of sale since it's a poison. If you want to burn it in a waste oil heater YOU CAN'T. I would issue a credit for your old oil good for clean fresh oil to burn
10) I don't mind living in a cleaner world. I don't mind hassling oil dumping yahoos.
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Ironic that the most common pre circa 1967 motor oil I see in Texas is "Golden State" ...
I've got a couple quarts of SG and SH motor oils out in the garage from my old muscle car days. I feel so "dirty" now. Do I have to call a Hazmat Team to take the stuff away?
"Old not obsolete"
Being a life long Californian and beginning to think the majority of Californians native or those flocking to the SF Bay Area or LA Basin to cover all bases are sub human to the point of the government expecting the brilliant Californians of being able to read the nutrition labels on the food they buy or calories on the menus where they get their fast foods yet aren't smart enough to read the manuals for the cars they take out a 7 year loan to buy or the information on the oil containers.
Well apparently this law has hit VR-1. Can't even get it off Amazon shipped into Cali. But, of course, I was able to get a case shipped off eBay yesterday...
I dunno what will happen with Redline, but many of their racing oils are dual rated (mono & multi) and they may be able to make the required ratings for a lot of their line ...
My personal guess is that Chevron SD Delo400 15W-30 and similar oils will become the new VR-1 in Cali. And as I have said all along, Maxlife has been VR-1 jr for quite a while ...
I have about 20 bottles of ZDDP+ left from back in the day when I used to blend up my own racing oils. So now the hunt is on for good modern oils with a base and add-paks that will not faint or go crazy when I dose them with 2 oz per change for the hot-rod flat tappet cams in some of the motors. It will emerge which oils can be dosed and which can't...
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