CAFE Standards Being Scaled Back

[SC Maintenance]

I highly doubt it very few people have any desire for a stick shift anymore

Manual transmission were about 25% in the early 90's and still at 10% in 2007 - when they dropped way off.

That coincides pretty well with Cafe. Manuals are better mileage on the highway but fall off in the city. The Cafe test is a fixed course of "mixed" driving. I say it may not be a coincidence.

I think given the choice of a potenially problamatic CVT people may have a change of heart. I doubt it would ever be more than 15%, but it could be that much.

 

[ctechbob]

I’m A-OK to back off on the CAFE requirements that allow getting rid of AFM/DFM, and start/stop. Also, let’s not get stupid with the 10 speed transmissions. Reduce the number of gears and make them reliable for at least 200,000 miles.

I only agree with part of that. Keep the 10 speeds, but un-cheapen them to make them reliable.

And I'll keep my smaller turbo motors for towing duty.

Auto SS and AFM/DFM can bugger off though.

 

[The_Jeff]

This is the thing.
Businesses of all kinds hate uncertainty.
Should an automaker plan on much lower CAFE requirements or should they assume that they'll revert to status quo anti in 2028?
It's not a decision I'd want to have to make myself, but I think that most who do will plan on the original CAFE standards prevailing.
IOW, no changes that extend beyond continuing existing product production or that require no more than software changes.

Hopefully they also have a plan on the shelf if a war breaks out (or whatever) and gas hits $10/gallon.

It was $3 eighteen years ago, has wiggled around, and is still $3. $10 isn't dramatic doomerism; it takes me as long to make ten bucks now as it did three back in the day.

Flexibility will be key, and continuing making compact cars for third world countries that could plausibly meet our standards will be an ace up their sleeves.

Hence the partial consensus that their long-term horizon plans may not budge much but some off-the-shelf technology may show its head for the near term.

 

[4wd]

I’m A-OK to back off on the CAFE requirements that allow getting rid of AFM/DFM, and start/stop. Also, let’s not get stupid with the 10 speed transmissions. Reduce the number of gears and make them reliable for at least 200,000 miles.

I was good at the 6L - wish the development money went into reliability and programming …

 

[ripcord]

Crude oil is not an infinite commodity at least stay at the status quo !
Why go backwards ?

Because the previous administration reached WAY past the point of diminishing returns. It doesn't make sense to raise costs massively in order to gain another percent or two of improvement.

The changes that are being rolled back were a backdoor mandate to eliminate ICE cats by making them prohibitively expensive.

 

[Nessism1]

Manual transmission were about 25% in the early 90's and still at 10% in 2007 - when they dropped way off.

That coincides pretty well with Cafe. Manuals are better mileage on the highway but fall off in the city. The Cafe test is a fixed course of "mixed" driving. I say it may not be a coincidence.

I think given the choice of a potenially problamatic CVT people may have a change of heart. I doubt it would ever be more than 15%, but it could be that much.

CVT's typically have a real wide gearing spread, including a tall top overdrive. Most MT's are geared low, for speed and sportiness. An MT could be made with a super tall top gear, but most people choosing a MT don't want that, thus the MFG'ers don't make them.

 

[SC Maintenance]

CVT's typically have a real wide gearing spread, including a tall top overdrive. Most MT's are geared low, for speed and sportiness. An MT could be made with a super tall top gear, but most people choosing a MT don't want that, thus the MFG'ers don't make them.

Maybe - but it would still be worse on the Cafe test because the ECU can optimize the gearing for the engine load / mileage which a human driver could never do, and in a Cafe test the driver is just suppose to drive normally - not hypermile or something.

 

[samven]

People say no one wants a manual transmission anymore, maybe so but when I bought my Fiesta in 2012 I could not find one on a dealer lot. When I asked why I was told they sold as fast as they came in. I ordered one and several weeks later I got the call that it came in. When I went to pick mine up they had 10 Fiesta's with 5 speed manuals, all of them were already sold. Somebody seems to like them. Even when I bought my newest car in March they asked me about trading my Fiesta, I said its a manual 13 year old with 96.000 miles I didnt think anyone would want it. They said there was a good market for them but still didnt offer me much so I kept it because its just fun to drive.

 

[trd1zz]

One really thinks this will bring prices down? I have my doubts but I think it'll cost taxpayers health related expenses in the end.

Though there are some rallying about these companies "bringin' back that ol v8".

Look at RAM. "The HEMI V8 is back!!!"

But wait, if you want the HEMI V8, it's gonna cost you $1200 more than the Hurricane I6. (except on the upper trims where the manufacturer margin is already sky high)

Prices aren't coming down.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Those needed bias ply tires just to be able to make them squeak.

This usually requires a neutral drop as well, especially if it’s not a one-tire-fire rearend…

 

[JunkdrawerDog]

Nothing like the sound of a small block Chevy with 8-1 compression sucking down a quadrajet with the filter lid upside down.

Those needed bias ply tires just to be able to make them squeak.

I had one of those with a 2bbl. Rated at 145 ponies I believe. Didn't make enough power to take the slack out of the drive train.

 

[FZ1]

rollin' in my 5.0

"Smoke 'em; If you got 'em."

 

[fantastic]

"Smoke 'em; If you got 'em."

Go home & watch Joe Dirt afterwards...

 

[mva]

I’ll just put my head in the sand and pretend that global warming isn’t happening.

 

[Nessism1]

I’ll just put my head in the sand and pretend that global warming isn’t happening.

You best trade that old truck of your in for a EV Ford truck, before it's too late.

 

[edyvw]

Companies make plans for decade in advance. They will not react to daily politics.

 

[IndyFan]

Toyota's doing some good stuff with solid state batteries. They'll happen faster than cold fusion.

Nowhere close to where batteries need to be. They are resource intensive to make and they are too heavy. The power grid cannot support 100% electric vehicles. Nowhere close. And there's no plan for it to get there at this time. And there is great competition for what power the grid can produce and distribute.

So the conditions won't be right for them to be the dominant power for cars and trucks in my lifetime.

California is the canary in the coal mine for electrification of vehicles in America. They had blackouts where people were asked not to charge their cars. More of that is coming, even without an increase in the market share for electric vehicles.

 

[Nyati]

I highly doubt it very few people have any desire for a stick shift anymore

I’m one of those “very few people “

 

[4wd]

This is the thing.
Businesses of all kinds hate uncertainty.
Should an automaker plan on much lower CAFE requirements or should they assume that they'll revert to status quo anti in 2028?
It's not a decision I'd want to have to make myself, but I think that most who do will plan on the original CAFE standards prevailing.
IOW, no changes that extend beyond continuing existing product production or that require no more than software changes.

No where near the impacts of EV mandates like CA put out …

 

[SC Maintenance]

Mitsubishi made the Mirage which met all requirements and sold for under $20k. Few sold and they pulled out of the market.

Skinflint BITOGers like stick shift hatchbacks as second-hand cars but nobody plans what the second buyer wants.

Naturally we as a collective would rather make cars "safer" than driving tests harder (or cell phone enforcement more prevalent), so we get dumb stuff like lane keep assist and, soon, auto-braking for pedestrians.

The Mirage is way too small for USA drivers to be comfortable. It was designed for Asian cities where no one goes over 20mph and every inch of parking is an absolute premium. Also Mitsubushi has very little presence in the USA. Not in anyone's evoked set. There is no dealer in Charleston - metro area is a million people.

Sentra / Elantra / Corolla are all selling 150 -200K units a year. The small car segment is over 1M total units, which is small compared to SUV's and Pickups but not nothing. Having said all that - relaxing Cafe requirements might make them more expensive because the OEM's won't need to sell them.