Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I'm not a fan of CAFE but I'm definitely against the idea of increasing gas tax for the purpose of controlling consumption or changing vehicle choices. Is CAFE really costing manufacturers that much anyway? According to NHTSA,
"Since 1983, manufacturers have paid more than $590 million in CAFE civil penalties. Most European manufacturers regularly pay CAFE civil penalties ranging from less than $1 million to more than $20 million annually. Asian and most of the big domestic manufacturers have never paid a civil penalty".
First off $590 million is peanuts relatively over 28 years. We are talking a $1 or $2 or so over the number of vehicles that had to been produced over 28 years. Also it says European manufactures regularly pay the penalties. That doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me. And Domestics have mostly never paid penalties. Now there might be more to it, but it doesn't sound like CAFE is costing consumers much, especially if they buy Domestic or Asian.
I'm sure there are a lot of other cost to the manufacturers to meet the CAFE standards. The worst problem with CAFE is how it dictates and ever increasing and unrealistic increase in fuel economy. I just don't think we need CAFE as it is presently being done. They could change it/lighten it's requirements or something similar. An automaker already is subject to paying the price for being heavy in high fuel consumption SUV when prices increase. It sure costed GM a few years ago.
I'm not for CAFE since it is artificially manipulating the market. But the idea of the need for a higher gas tax which would not only manipulate the market but cost the poorest lots of money is the worst idea one could come up with. At best it is a solution in search of a problem, and at worst a scheme to take more from those that have the least. Let supply and demand dictate prices and behavior.
You touched on it yourself, and you are right. The fines are just the visible costs that the manufacturers have to bear. There are also the hidden costs that the consumer funds on every vehicle purchase. Development costs and the like to meet the CAFE demands that get passed on to the consumer, higher prices on lower mileage vehicles that are in demand to subsidize the lower demand higher mpg models also cost the consumer.
Depending on which source you choose to believe, I've seen estimates in the range of $150-$350 per vehicle in added cost as a corporate average. There are certain makes and models where the projected cost is much higher.
But see, this part I don't really have a problem with it. I don't have a problem with paying the development costs for more fuel efficiencey, and I don't even have a problem really with larger, higher consumption vehicles costing more to subsidize the more fuel efficient vehicles. You have a choice to buy either vehicle and to be on the plus side of the subsidy. I'm more against the general concept of CAFE dictating what should be manufatured instead of letting the market decide. But raising gas taxes is manipulating the market as well and penalizing everyone.
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But please, also keep in mind, this is at current CAFE levels. The REAL problem here mechanix is the huge jump that is proposed in the current CAFE standards. Up until now the increases have been relatively attainable and remained somewhat relaistic, not due in any small part to large amounts of lobbying by the manufacturers. But these new proposals...well they are flat out stupid. They are to big a jump for the current mix of technology and market demand to achieve. Some in power are out there talking about numbers in the 60's by2025, thats crazy, even the number in the 40's will be impossible to achieve without major changes in market demand or vehicle choice.
These new numbers and the size of their increase makes any comparison to the relatively sane increases we saw in past almost irrelevant. These new proposals are game changers that eclipse anything CAFE has tried to do in the past.
And this is the part I am most against about CAFE and I touched on earlier in my post. And I would assume it is what most automakers are against. This is probably why they want to jsut do away with CAFE altogether because it is a tool that can be used to effect change in extreme and draconian measures. It might be reasonable now but not in the future. But see, getting rid of CAFE and replacing it with a gas tax is just a transfer of risk to everyone else. A gas tax would go the same route and become draconian. Once you agree that it is OK to tax gasoline so the "right" amount is being used (or the right vehicles are being purchased), it will keep increasing until the sky's the limit.
