Bypass system??? is it worth it???

[therion]

Hi, this is my first thread on this forum. I have a 1995 Ford Econoline 150 Van which gets its musclepower from a 351 C.I.D. (5.8L) FE V8. From what i have heard this is a very reliable motor (180k possible with regular oil). I want to get at least 1/4 million miles out of this motor, do i need a Bypass system to accomplish this?? I heard it filters down to 1 micron, but is that necessary in protection from WEAR!, my ultimate goal is to make this engine last for a long time as i will not sell the vehicle. EVER.

P.S. Current mileage is 61,800 - running Mobil 1 5w30 Supersyn & Amsoil SDF15 oil filter.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
IMHO you will get no real benefits from a bypass filter unless;

a) you plan to extend the OCI significantly
b) you plan to keep the original vehicle for a very very long time indeed and can then retro-fit it to the next vehicle
c) your driving style/vehicle use is "extreme"

Many people invest in these items without doing a real cost/benefit analysis only to find that the end result was not worth the effort

I use expensive centrifuge bypass filters ( and always will ) on my heavily utilised commercial high power 500hp diesel engines. This extends OCIs by a factor of five or so and reduces valve train component wear ( less adjustments )significantly. These engines do between 200kkms an 240kkms each per annum ( about 4000-6000kms per week )and use a commercial synthetic oil

I have never fitted a bypass oil filter to a private vehicle. I cover about 80kkms per annum in one of my cars ( a Subaru Outback 2.5 AWD at present )but I could never really justify it!
I simply almost double the recommended OCI and use Delvac 1 5w-40 instead

Regards
Doug

 

[slalom44]

This is the thread that sold me on bypass filters:
http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=e187b565a170ce028abd9609bfd99aab&threadid=352127

 

[greencrew]

I think Doug makes the point very clear. A by-pass filter is more justifiable on high cost large oil demand applications. In many respects it faces same challenge of cost justification as synthetic oil, only at a higher cost for more return. If dino oil will get you there, and synthetic will take you farther than you need to go, then a by-pass is excessive. The only way to justify it is the same way we justify many of the other vehicle mods we make which are excessive.

The big payoff for by-pass filters is on big engines with large sumps which are run hard until they are wore out, then rebuilt and run hard again. The diesel engines are a good example.

In a daily driver, a by-pass filter will always cost less, require less maintenance, and reduce engine wear significantly. The only problem is overcomming a, b, and c in Doug's comments.

I think b is the biggest obstacle. You may be saving the next owner money on oil changes, and that person most likely won't appreciate it, won't know it, and has no idea how to maintain the by-pass. That will only happen if you can find a location. A by-pass would be a much better option if a location were to be designed right into the vehicle like a spare tire is.

a and b are where you save expenses to justify the cost, but you have to trust the unit to do it's job. Problem is, even then oil expense is one of the least costs of operating a vehicle, so the savings aren't much.

In the end all you end up with is the convenience factor and the knowledge that your 250k engine runs like a typical engine with 50k, only no one will believe you.

I would say back in 1995 with 5k on the engine this would have been a good idea for your van and you would be happy with the results. Today it is questionable, and I would not put one on myself. It would have to be something you really want to do, and finding a good location to mount it would be a plus.

[ January 21, 2004, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: greencrew ]

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
greencrew - you are indeed more eloquent than I!

I hope your weather is warmer there now. It is 33C here today and tropically humid!

Regards

 

[needtoknow]

I installed my first by-pass filter on a new 2003 Ford Ranger. My considerations were that, like my last 20 year old truck, I plan to keep this vehicle for as long as I possibly can and do as little repair work on it as I possibly can. The reasoning was the same as rust proofing. People that turn over their vehicles every 3-5 years have no justification for installing anything that will benifit the next owner. Used car buyers will not pay extra for this level of care. They only look for that "steal" vehicle that they can boast about to their friends. It's financially benificial to keep your vehicle for as long as you can, but the auto makers would rather you bought into their "newest and sexiest" sales pitch. If I do get rid of this truck I will indeed remove the by-pass filter for the next one. I have also gone to very extended oil drains to reduce my output costs.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
needtoknow - sounds like you made a good decision. In my viewpoint at least its Cost, socially and environmentally sound!

Regards

 

[therion]

quote:

---

Originally posted by greencrew:
I think Doug makes the point very clear. A by-pass filter is more justifiable on high cost large oil demand applications. In many respects it faces same challenge of cost justification as synthetic oil, only at a higher cost for more return. If dino oil will get you there, and synthetic will take you farther than you need to go, then a by-pass is excessive. The only way to justify it is the same way we justify many of the other vehicle mods we make which are excessive.

The big payoff for by-pass filters is on big engines with large sumps which are run hard until they are wore out, then rebuilt and run hard again. The diesel engines are a good example.

In a daily driver, a by-pass filter will always cost less, require less maintenance, and reduce engine wear significantly. The only problem is overcomming a, b, and c in Doug's comments.

I think b is the biggest obstacle. You may be saving the next owner money on oil changes, and that person most likely won't appreciate it, won't know it, and has no idea how to maintain the by-pass. That will only happen if you can find a location. A by-pass would be a much better option if a location were to be designed right into the vehicle like a spare tire is.

a and b are where you save expenses to justify the cost, but you have to trust the unit to do it's job. Problem is, even then oil expense is one of the least costs of operating a vehicle, so the savings aren't much.

In the end all you end up with is the convenience factor and the knowledge that your 250k engine runs like a typical engine with 50k, only no one will believe you.

I would say back in 1995 with 5k on the engine this would have been a good idea for your van and you would be happy with the results. Today it is questionable, and I would not put one on myself. It would have to be something you really want to do, and finding a good location to mount it would be a plus.

---

Ok, well i will not EVER sell this vehicle. And With it having 61,000 miles is there too much wear already? or what are you tryng to say.

 

[therion]

quote:

---

Originally posted by therion:

Originally posted by greencrew:
[qb] I think Doug makes the point very clear. A by-pass filter is more justifiable on high cost large oil demand applications. In many respects it faces same challenge of cost justification as synthetic oil, only at a higher cost for more return. If dino oil will get you there, and synthetic will take you farther than you need to go, then a by-pass is excessive. The only way to justify it is the same way we justify many of the other vehicle mods we make which are excessive.

The big payoff for by-pass filters is on big engines with large sumps which are run hard until they are wore out, then rebuilt and run hard again. The diesel engines are a good example.

In a daily driver, a by-pass filter will always cost less, require less maintenance, and reduce engine wear significantly. The only problem is overcomming a, b, and c in Doug's comments.

I think b is the biggest obstacle. You may be saving the next owner money on oil changes, and that person most likely won't appreciate it, won't know it, and has no idea how to maintain the by-pass. That will only happen if you can find a location. A by-pass would be a much better option if a location were to be designed right into the vehicle like a spare tire is.

a and b are where you save expenses to justify the cost, but you have to trust the unit to do it's job. Problem is, even then oil expense is one of the least costs of operating a vehicle, so the savings aren't much.

In the end all you end up with is the convenience factor and the knowledge that your 250k engine runs like a typical engine with 50k, only no one will believe you.

I would say back in 1995 with 5k on the engine this would have been a good idea for your van and you would be happy with the results. Today it is questionable, and I would not put one on myself. It would have to be something you really want to do, and finding a good location to mount it would be a plus.

---

Ok, dougs point "B" is what i am aiming at. I will keep this vehicle as long as possible, is 500,000 possible???. And With it having 61,000 miles is there too much wear already??? I do not tow anything, i used to tow a jetski though. I will check for location to mount it. There is plenty of room around the engine bay area. Is there a limit to the amount of hosing from the full flow mount to the remote bypass location?

Let me also include some history on where and how this vehicle was driven for its first 50,000miles of its life: It was used as a vacation van in europe ONLY pulling a jetski is the heaviest load it ever had. When in used, traveled over 2,000km at a time. Used Mobil 1 5w-50 RF Synthetic.

Ok guys, here is the real question: Which brand will filter out the MOST particles and is the most efficent. ok discuss.

[ January 25, 2004, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: therion ]

 

[RalphPWood]

I have only heard of three brands of filters mentioned on this forum that can clean oil down to 1/10th of one micron. There are a few scattered over the world that can filter as good. Most are not economical because of the cost of the elements.
I just sent a Motor Guard M-30 to New Zealand. Down under there are several good brands. One is economical that I am familiar with. In the US there are only the Frantz, Motor Guard and Gulf Coast that are practical. Your engine should never need an oil drain unless you have an extreme fuel or coolant contamination problem. You need 100 percent clean oil 100 percent of the time. You also need enough new oil added at filter change to keep the additive package up. The Motor Guard is the easiest of the submicronic bypass filters to service. Under normal conditions the 351 would need the Motor Guard changed every 2000 miles. The element is high quality toilet paper. Every 2000 miles a roll of toilet paper and a quart of oil. The filters don't work with the metric system. They are designed for quarts and miles. I don't know what the guy in New Zealand will do. The Motor Guard is made of die cast aluminum with an epoxy coating inside and out. It is a compressing type filter which gives it an advantage for one pass filtration such as for fuel. For the last 37 years Motor Guard has advertised down to 1/100th of one micron filtration. They are effective enough to remove bacteria. If you change the Motor Guard as recommended the Mobil 1 should always look like it is new. Synthetic isn't necessary but may have advantages for extreme use.
About 20 years ago a guy asked me if almost 100,000 miles was too many miles to put a submicronic bypass filter on his Toyota Corolla. I said not if you plan on keeping it a long time. I installed a Frantz oil cleaner on it with a Frantz sandwich adapter. A few years ago he told me he had sold it with over 500,000 on it. He used Pennzoil. I have a Frantz oil cleaner that was bought from an Amsoil/Frantz dealer in Salt Lake City, Utah. It had Amsoil 10-40 installed in the engine and transaxle. The Honda Civic went 350,000 miles. I put the Frantz on a GEO Prism ATF and a Motor Guard M-30 on the oil. The GEO uses Castrol GTX 10-30. It has been my experience that clean oil will virtually stop engine wear.

Ralph

 

[therion]

WOW! thanks for the input. I will absolutely save up money to buy an Oil Bypass for my van. I'm going to go with either OilGuard or Amsoil.

 

[msparks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by therion:
Ok, well i will not EVER sell this vehicle. And With it having 61,000 miles is there too much wear already? or what are you tryng to say. [/QB]

---

Hey it's never too late to install a good by-pass system. You will be stopping any further wear. So you figure you will still be able to get 1/2 million miles instead of 1 million.

It would also be a good idea to stick with the synthetic, as you will even further reduce wear. Especially in these cold days we have been having.

Like it's been said before, if or when you do get rid of the vehile you can take off the by-pass filter and put it on your new vehicle. I'll be doing that when I get rid of my jetta next year. I can't imagine others to have the sense to want to keep the by-pass filter.

 

[therion]

quote:

---

Originally posted by msparks:

quote:

---

Originally posted by therion:
Ok, well i will not EVER sell this vehicle. And With it having 61,000 miles is there too much wear already? or what are you tryng to say.

---

Hey it's never too late to install a good by-pass system. You will be stopping any further wear. So you figure you will still be able to get 1/2 million miles instead of 1 million.

It would also be a good idea to stick with the synthetic, as you will even further reduce wear. Especially in these cold days we have been having.

Like it's been said before, if or when you do get rid of the vehile you can take off the by-pass filter and put it on your new vehicle. I'll be doing that when I get rid of my jetta next year. I can't imagine others to have the sense to want to keep the by-pass filter. [/QB]

---

yeah thats what i think. It's seen mostly synthetics throughout its life. I think with all the highway driving its very little worn. Anyway, Is there a limit to the length of tubing from the oil filter to the bypass location. I would like to place the dual remote bypass setup where the auxilary battery would sit on my truck (it has been removed). The oil filter is down below by the front bumper, would this cause a problem with oil pressure?

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
....The element is high quality toilet paper. Every 2000 miles a roll of toilet paper and a quart of oil. The filters don't work with the metric system. They are designed for quarts and miles. I don't know what the guy in New Zealand will do.
.....

Ralph

---

Ralph, please explain why your filters won't work with the metric system.

 

[greencrew]

quote:

---

Originally posted by therion:
Ok, well i will not EVER sell this vehicle. And With it having 61,000 miles is there too much wear already? or what are you tryng to say.

---

therion, You're right, I'll retract that statement. I was thinking so hard on my eloquent wording that I didn't do the math right. If you run that van to 250k you will have run it longer than I will on my truck, because I usually keep a vehicle 150k.

61,000 miles is a young engine given today's technology. I also see you are interested in running a by-pass with is the most important consideration IMO. The experience alone is worth the money, and that's not my opinion, that's from experience.

 

[therion]

Thanks greencrow. I am awaiting the money that people owe me (about $200), then i will buy a system most likely the Amsoil since it seems to be the easiest to service and popular. Once i get it i hope i will be able to install it..

 

[RalphPWood]

Ralph [/qb][/QUOTE]Ralph, please explain why your filters won't work with the metric system. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Just an attempt at a corny joke. The one I sent to New Zealand is for a Honda. He has found a place to mount it.
I have some Motor Guards in Candaa on Mercedes Benz diesels. A few on marine engines up there. Most of the people that buy them are mechanical types that adjust to the different fittings they might need. I got an email from California asking how to install a Motor Guard on a 300D. The same day I got an email from one of my Canadian customers telling me how he installed his. I have to depend on my customers for a lot of info. I have customers that go farther between filter changes than what I recommend then they change the oil every 50,000 miles or so. People work out their own system. There is no one system that works for everyone. In Canada you probably won't have a oxidation problem. In Dallas you probably won't have a sludge problem. I have three customers that have filters on similar GM trucks. Two have expensive synthetic oil. One uses conventional 30 wt oil. The guy with the 30 wt oil has no oxidation problems. The other ones do. The guy with the 30 wt oil has a trailer towing package which includes a large oil cooler. If I didn't know that I might tell the other two to drain the synthetic and put in some cheapo 30 wt. If your oil is dirty you need a better oil fiter. If your oil is too hot you need a oil cooler.

Ralph