Bypass return on pressure side?

kgcobra320 · Jun 26, 2006

If feed my bypass filter with a small line off from my remote full flow filter on the input side, and then return it to the output side, will it work as well as a return to the valve cover? The pressure drop across the remote filter is about 3 psi at around 5000 rpm and less at idle.
Good idea, bad idea?....(Ford 4.6l DOHC)

I was going to feed it with the output side of the remote and then return to the valve cover.

Kevin

Gary Allan · Jun 26, 2006

Effectively you're running the bypass filter in parallel to the full flow. You'll get less flow until the full flow gets some accumulation on it ...more as you advance into the OCI.

kgcobra320 · Jun 26, 2006

Yes they would be in parallel. I would get more bypass at higher rpms, less at idle and more as the full flow gets dirty.
Are there any benefits or downsides to this approach? I kind of don't like feeding the bypass with oil that has not first been through the full flow but I can't say as it would really matter......or does it????

Kevin

XS650 · Jun 26, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by kgcobra320:
....
Are there any benefits or downsides to this approach? I kind of don't like feeding the bypass with oil that has not first been through the full flow but I can't say as it would really matter......or does it????

Kevin

All else being equal, you would get less flow through your bypass filter with that setup because of the smaller pressure difference between the inlet and outlet. You could help abit with that by not using any flow restrictors on the bypass.

Not running the oil through the full flow first doesn't sound like an issue at all.

acewiza · Jun 27, 2006

The only place you would ever be able to detect even the slightest difference in the oil at points within the system is between the inlet and the outlet of the bypass filter.

I prefer inasmuch as is possible and reasonable, "steady state" systems, where things like flow rate are not dependent on other more or less uncontrollable variables. If you have a healthy engine that is not clogging the full flow you will be shortchanging yourself on bypass performance, possibly producing negligible or even no flow through the bypass when cold. Maybe not. Try it and test/check the flow rate.

I don't think I like this plumbing scheme.

kgcobra320 · Jun 27, 2006

The only reason that I was thinking about it was that the connections would have been easier/cleaner. Both the bypass and the full flow have nice thick aluminum cases that can be drilled and tapped easily and then fitted with the AN fittings that I paid too much for. Drilling and tapping the valve cover would require removal of the cover it'self and I'm not sure how thick it is, although it is cast aluminum. The idea of using the oil filler cap doesn't really apeal to me, it is plastic and would have to be messed with every time I added oil.
If there is a chance of no flow through my bypass with the return as discussed then I'll just have to remove the valve cover...I guess...BIG covers, with the spark plugs right thru the center.....

LarryL · Jun 27, 2006

If you're going to use your current scheme, why bother at all. A bypass works great and the flow has been proven to work if you return to a no-pressure area. Amsoil has a setup like you describe and they have gone to the trouble to add a spring and valve to force the issue. It may be the only such setup on the market. If it worked well, don't you think others would try it, too. You might want to consider sticking to the traditional way of hooking up your bypass filter. It works best that way, and if you going to all the trouble to install the thing, it might only be a little more work to finish it right. There are people that make oil fill cap adaptors. Go to the Frantz filter web site.. A Frantz dealer in Northern California manufacturers the things for his customers. I think the lady that runs the company can help you find the guy. Give them a call.

kgcobra320 · Jun 27, 2006

Well, I'm not a bypass filter expert by any means I was just looking at all of the alternatives and do not have my mind set on one approach. But like I said in my last post I will end up doing it the conventional way and returning to the valve cover.....I'm just moaning about removing the valve cover....I have been working on this oil system for months now! Between the custom bracket/mounting scheme for the remote filter, the Accusump install and the A-pillar mounted mechanical pressure gauges to monitor everything, it has been quite the project! Not to mention I'm really picky about how things are done so it takes a while...and Ive got a fairly long honey-do list hanging over my head as well.....she is very demanding!!!

Louie's gone fishing · Jun 28, 2006

You can't use an oil fill cap conversion?

kgcobra320 · Jun 28, 2006

I probably would just make something up myself if I were to go that route. I'm not sure if I would like the way it would look and it should return to the passenger side anyway because of where the filters are mounted. To get things going I might just do it though...I could always just buy another filler cap....cheap plastic...

Louie's gone fishing · Jun 28, 2006

Why can you return it to the oil pan? Punch a hole in the side and be done with it.

kgcobra320 · Jun 29, 2006

Would have to pull the pan...I don't want any chips in the oil. To be done right, a bung would have to be welded to the pan. That's even more work than pulling the valve cover.

Thanks for all of the ideas though!

acewiza · Jul 2, 2006

Punching the pan does not produce any "chips."

And sorry I feel compelled to say this, but if you think pulling a cover or pan is alot of work, well, maybe you should just pay some shop to install it for you...

Louie's gone fishing · Jul 2, 2006

If the pan is not aluminum, punching a hole, first gives the threads more area to bite into and makes a very strong connection.

kgcobra320 · Jul 4, 2006

quote:

Punching the pan does not produce any "chips."

With what, a hammer and a punch?

Sorry, call me picky but that's not the way I would do it. Welded in bung would be the only way I would consider connecting into the oil pan. And btw maybe the punching would not cause any chips but the tapping process after, certainly would.

quote:

And sorry I feel compelled to say this, but if you think pulling a cover or pan is alot of work, well, maybe you should just pay some shop to install it for you...

Ummmm.....I'm sorry that you felt compelled to post such a comment as well, as it was compleatly out of line and uncalled for!! You do not know me nor do you have any idea of what my capabilities are!! As I had mentioned in an earlier post this is just one part of many modifications that I have been doing.....I was just complaining......thats all!!! Please feel compelled to keep the personal attacks to yourself!

BTW, the valve cover is not a problem but complete removal of the oil pan would require dropping the K-member or removing the engine.....Sorry, I do think that is a lot of work!!!

Thanks everyone else for the constructive advice.

johnd · Jul 4, 2006

At the risk of stiring up further problems, punching and tapping a pan in place can be done without any risks. Heavy grease on the tap will capture metal that is cut free by the tap. This is standard automotive procedure, it's even the approved way to tap an aluminum head when threads are stripped and an adaptor has to be installed.

I had a problem of an altogether different nature with my setup. The engine is so sandwitched in the car that there isn't any pan realestate on the sides that is reachable. I had a machinist drill and tap the drain plug and went in that way. It is up high enough that there isn't any risk of shearing the line off.

kgcobra320 · Jul 4, 2006

Yeah, I know that it is done all of the time and I've actually used the grease trick in a different application. I'm just being paranoid, that's all....I guess that even if a few small chips did fall into the pan then they should be picked up by the filter before getting into the oil gallies.

acewiza · Jul 4, 2006

Sorry, I have welded bungs in several pans on various vehicles around here myself. I also believe that is the best way to do it. Your post implied (to me, at least) that you were looking for an easy way to do it.

You started this whole thread with a proposal for a bypass install that is questionable at best, and as I stated above, based on ease of install only. Then you go off about bungs and chips because your install standards are so high.

So which is it, if I may ask? Do it right, or don't do it at all is what I always say...

kgcobra320 · Jul 5, 2006

quote:

You started this whole thread with a proposal for a bypass install that is questionable at best

I believe that is why I had asked the question in the first place. I am not a bypass filter expert by any means. I had asked IF it was ok to do THEN it would make for an easier/CLEANER install. It was determined in this thread that it was not a good approach, I agreed. I then jokingly complained about the work involved. That was a big mistake I guess, as this is a total waste of time! When it comes to my car I always do things right and this will be no exception. (All complaints aside)

quote:

Do it right, or don't do it at all is what I always say...

You should change your motto to also include "and never complain about it......"

Louie's gone fishing · Jul 5, 2006

quote:

With what, a hammer and a punch? Sorry, call me picky but that's not the way I would do it. Welded in bung would be the only way I would consider connecting into the oil pan. And btw maybe the punching would not cause any chips but the tapping process after, certainly would.

I've installed returns to a sheetmetal oil pan by using a punch with a shoulder on it. Wack it until it bottoms out. This will add some shape to the hole. Then just turn in the adapter. I makes it's own threads. Use some grease on the threads, back it out clean up the mess and you're on your way. I did not realize I was doing it wrong or was just plain stupid about the problems of such an operation. It's good I didn't know I was wrong. It might not have worked. By the way, the punch was supplied by Frantz. Al least I'm not the only stupid one.

Bypass return on pressure side?

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